Unpredictable aggression in female rescue Staffy

Hi, I am posting this again as put it first in help forum by mistake ( new member ) and have deleted it there. Thank you for the 3 replies so far.

We have had a 2 year old ,neutered female staffy from a local rescue for the last month, after careful consideration of possible new owner / resue dog mismatch etc. Found run over, not chipped. Do not know any further background history re socialisation etc. Lived in foster home for 3 months with very calm female and very dominant male before coming to us, was never walked off lead there. Only issues there were around toys and introduction to new dogs. Nil else disclosed.
We have 40 years experience with dogs ( 16 with Staffs ) and currently have a 5 yr old female Staffy X ( also rescue ) who has accepted the new dog without a problem. We have made a lot of progress so far and the rescue dog settled in very well at home . Changed to healthy, high quality dry food and no apparent health problems. We have teenagers and no issues with them and new dog. Dogs are walked 2-3 hours per day ( 1 hour off leash running in a safe and deserted area ). Plenty of toys and stimulation at home. Never left for more than 3-4 hours.

Current issues are:
Very high prey drive when initiated with poor recall ( will chase a leaf, ball, cat, children, has tried to dominate young child who is very fearful of dogs anyway) and poor bite inhibition.
Unexpected agression ( biting other dogs that show no agression at all, both off and on lead but worse on lead) with no apparent trigger and not showing expected prior behavioural warning body signs or calming signals. Dog did show initial fear aggression on lead but seems to have resolved with harness. We are confident dog walkers who don't panic easily.

She responds well to treats, shows affection in the home, walks well on harness, will play off lead and show submission on meeeting most dogs but sudden explosive aggression ( 'red mist' ) and without a consistant trigger that we can identify. If can't bite strange dog an leash will have a go at my Staff X, who is calm and peaceful and doesn't understand this. Have only used positive re-enforcement and rewards in training. Do not wish to muzzle if possible.
Spoke to a progressive, very experienced behaviourist who advised to return dog to rescue ( rescue retain ownership of dog for the rest of dog's life so will take back and they do not euthanise dogs ) as she had concerns re public safety.
My OH and I feel 'underqualified' to deal with this unpredictable aggression and it would be unfair on the dog if we have to 'police' her for the rest of it's life whenever we are out, as our previous dogs have all been very well socialised without any such concerns. Something in her past has obviously caused such responses. We are mindful of the risk of possible harm to other dogs and children. We have tried a Halti, but not working. Walking the dogs daily without encountering other dogs or people is not an option. The rescue organisation have not offered much support desite us raising concerns during the first 2 weeks, and with subsequent updates from us.
Any advice from members who have overcome these difficulties would be much appreciated, thank you.

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Not sure what to advise but there is a lot of collective experience on this forum. Personally I would first decide whether you are committed to the dog (did not see her name). I am sure with time and hard work things will improve but if you are unsure then perhaps it is preferable to return her to the rescue.

Hi
We are in something of a similar situation in fact reading your concerns was like reading about our wee staffi! we got her three weeks ago from a rescue centre which she had been in since August 2011- the centre gave us no history on Ellie other than to say she had been found as a stray. She seemed oeally friendly when we met her- the usual bit of mouthing but I put that down to the excitement of meeting us. Anyway quickly established that she ican become really aggressive with some animals and some humans which she encounters on her travels! We keep her close when we pass people and other dogs and I have accepted that this is the risk you run when you adopt a wee rescue dog who could possibly and probably has been abused. In the home she is the most loving wee dog I have ever owned and I have no intention of ever returning her to rescue. I am hopeful that with time and love and patience she will feel safer and be less defensive and aggressive- if not I will cope with her the way she is- although my heart sinks when we pass people and I know this isn't an ideal situation. My main concern is that she would bite a child as she has growled aggressively at a relatives children when they came to visit and she hates the postman! I know this isn't much help but I would say persevere they might have had a terrible time of it in the past. It certainly highlights the importance of being a responsible dog owner. The thing that is so upsetting is that when she is at home she cuddles up like a baby but when she is out she certainly fits the role of an aggressive staffi and is certainly not looked at with affection by other people we pass. Saying all that I love her and she is with us for life!!

nothing to add I'm afraid but hope you cn get things sorted, and if you can't it sounds like you are really responsible and would only be making decisions for the right reasons, good luck

I'm afraid that some dogs just don't tolerate other dogs. I'd advise keeping her on harness during walks and walk your other dog on the opposite side or with each of you handling a dog if possible.

It can take a rescue dog time to settle and given you don't know her past she could have been abused and therfore have trust issues. She could come around but it is best to be carefull. I'd also seperate the dogs if they are going to be left alone.

Thanks for advice and support.
I have unfortunately had 2 episodes this week where she suddenly went for other dogs having run around with them initially, there were none of the usual physical or behavioural warning signs given. I was able to intervene before an injury happened. I think she is being overprotective of her new pack, as cannot identify any other trigger and the other dogs displayed appropriate greeting behaviour. Excessive possession behaviour around sticks or balls is becoming more noticeable, she won't share and will be totally fixated on having the toy at all costs. I have done some indoor reward based training with some success, as she is treat orientated.
Any advice re short term muzzle usage. My OH is away for a few days, we shall have to make a final decision soon, safety risk will be the deciding factor.
Both dogs are separated when we are out.

(Caryll here - I've forgotten my password & I'm waiting for Steve to reset it!)

I have to say that I don't like muzzles, and would only use one as a last resort. If she is dog aggressive, then you may have to accept that she cannot be allowed to play with other dogs & you'll have to keep her on a lead when around them.

Muzzles can make a dog feel quite insecure & so could exacerbate the problem.

I knew someone that had a rescue staffy X called Ginger who sounds an awful lot like your dog. She was very toy obbsessed and aggressive-she actually bit my dog on the nose and wouldn't let go!
The owners stopped letting her have toys, they kept her under very, very close supervision and just socialized her all the time, like you would with a puppy. A couple of months later she was a changed dog and played quite happily with mine.
I think you should muzzle her, for her own safety.

A final update. thanks again to all who offered their kind advice.
We continued to make steady progress in the home and some improvement with recall in controlled situations, but had further episodes of unprovoked aggression on and off lead, quite nasty and persistent attempts to bite dogs that she had happily been playing with a few minutes before. Did not wish to muzzle. Sadly returned to rescue after 2 months. Dog now with a very experienced foster carer who will hopefully continue with training and lots of tlc. I hope they find an experienced new owner who will now know what they are taking on.
This was a steep learning curve for us, and reminded us of how lucky we had been with our current other rescue dog. We had to admit that we were not a perfect match for her and the possibility of a serious bite to another dog or child was too great. We don't think she can ever be safely walked off leash with other dogs or animals around as her prey drive is too great.
This has not deterred us from taking in another rescue in the future, we will consider breed and gender more carefully. It also emphasised the importance of rehoming / rescue organisations to assess their rescue dogs' temperaments in detail and offer some ongoing advice and support for new owners, especially when they have been in foster care for a long time.
I shall be starting the bronze KC course with my other rescue soon, it is run by the behaviourist I mentioned earlier.

Oh, that's a shame. But at least she's with someone who will continue with the training & socialisation. Good luck with any future rescue you take on!

8pawprints wrote:A final update.

I hope you don't mean that! Please, stay with us & let us know when you get another dog! We'd like to hear about your KC bronze success (hopefully!) as well!

Thanks Caryll.
I checked the rescue website yesterday, and a few days after her return she is back with the original foster family, despite assurances that she would be going to a very experienced, new foster family who would work on the aggression etc. We were very surprised. I shall be phoning the rescue today to find out what happened.