Seperation Problems - Any Suggestions?

Hi All, hoping you guys can help...

Basically we rescued a 4 year old female staffy called Maddie just over 3 weeks ago. She has settled in so well. My older dog and her get on great and just enjoy eachothers company. When someone is home with her she is as good as gold, just takes herself off onto a sofa and sleeps unless its garden time, walkies time or food time (which she wishes it was all the time!! ). However, we both work full time so during the day both dogs are left 4 hours in the morning, then a dog walker comes in and walks them both for an hour, then they are left for the rest of the afternoon, possibly another 4 hours. Our neighbour (we only moved in 4 weeks ago) has already come round to complain that our dogs bark all day long and that she has reported them to the council.....theres more to that as shes just a crazy neighbour which I wont go into. We decided to film and record Maddie and Moo when left and Maddie did make noises, howling and whining with a few barks thrown in. She obvioulsy doesnt like doors being closed when shes left as we had closed the kitchen door and the front bedroom door as she can stand on the bed and look out of the window which sets off her barking. She will dig and scrap at the door and then begin to howl.


We have tried leaving the radio on, the telly on, have bought anti bark collars which send out high pitch sounds when she makes noise (didnt work) and I have done some training with her, building up the time she is left and getting a reward when she is quiet etc......

However it doesnt seem to be working....my otherhalf is becoming extremly stressed by the situation and obvioulsy the neighbour isnt helping so I really need some advice please? I have told my otherhalf Mads has only been there 3 weeks and probably is still settling in and having been in a kennels for 4 months and not knowing her history before then as she was a stray you dont know what she was like. The kennels told us she could be left a few hours in the morning and then again in the afternoon with no problem, she was quiet but this doesnt seem to be the case.

We both love Mads to bits and when we are home she is the perfect well behaved if a little cheeky doglet but the problems being caused and stressed being felt when she is left is quickly sending her back to the kennels and I really dont want that to happen.

Any help would be greatly received.

Thanks
Nik

(sorry its long!)

I would crate train her, then leave some toys and water in her crate and put her in when you leave but leave the crate door open so she can go in and out. Hopefully she'll feel more secure if she has her own den and the toys will distract her. Some dogs hate being left on their own and staffies are very people oriented dogs. I'm sure someone else will have better advice, that's all I can think of I'm afraid. Good luck.

Firstly, welcome to the forum!

Are your dogs seperated when you go out, and if so, how? Can they see each other for example? Are they crated or left to wander around in the room?

Thank you for your replies.

Mads doesnt mind going in her crate while we are around but we put her in it when we went out, filmed it, and she basically shoved her whole head through the top of it and it looked very dangerous so we dont feel comfortable leaving her in it for her own safety.

We leave both dogs free, Moo will take himself off upstairs and sleep on the bed (he use to being left). They have the lounge, dining room and back bedroom during the day. We have made the dining room into a doggy den, even bought a sofabed for the dogs and put blankets on it, put their beds in there, started to feed them in there but unless we are around Mads wont go in there.

Mads does love people but when we are there she doesnt show a great deal of interest in being with us, like I say she will just take herself off and sleep somewhere.

We have bought a kong for her to chew while we are out but again I am not keen on the idea as she can tend to guard her toys when Moo is around.

Just wish we could help her cos she is such a lovely little dog but at the end of the day we want to do whats right for her.

Ok, more questions!

Do you exercise the dogs before you go out in the morning, and if so, what sort of exercise & for how long?

Yes they do....Moo is 14 so he doesnt mind a potter around but mads, she goes on her extendable to the park near the house and has a runabout. This is usually for above half an hour. And as I say every day the dog walker walks them for an hour and then they have a shorter walk before bed.

What I would sugest is that you crate them both, but have the crates where they can see each other. Give them both a couple of indestructible toys, with perhaps a kong stuffed with meat & then frozen so it takes her a while to get at the food.

When you say that she nearly pushed her head out of the crate, what sort of crate do you use? With mine, I don't see how it could be done. The hard metal wires are too close together, and the door doesn't reach the top, so there's no gap at the edges.

....just your usual dog crate with the large metal clips as you say at the top....there is no door at the top only at the side...thats how extreme her behaviour was, her want to get out was so high that she literally used all her staffy might (which is a lot) and pushed her head up into the clips until she could make a gap and then kept pushing.....it was quite distressing to watch!

We currently allow the dogs to sleep in the bedroom with us, not on the bed, mads has her own big cushion so I think I may try putting them both downstairs in the dining room at night, get her use to being seperated from us.......

I am just at a loss to know what I can do to help her......she is such a sweet beautiful dog.

Yes, I'd go one step at a time. She's probably still settling in & can't believe that she isn't going to be left again, poor girl.

Try moving them both dowstairs at night, and perhaps at the weekend you can start going out for 5 or 10 minutes at a time so she knows you'll be comimg back.

As an aside, when you leave her, don't make a big fuss over her, just act as though it's a normal thing to do. Don't say goodbye or pat/cuddle her, just get your coat & go. Same when you come home. When you get in, potter around for a couple of minutes till she's nice & calm & then give her some gentle quiet praise. It could be that she's working herself up into fever pitch even before you leave the house.

Yep already do that. This weekend I spent a good few hours wondering around the house in my coat and shoes and then pretending to leave and just waiting in the kitchen, starting from 2 mins and going a little longer each time until I reached 20mins. Before either of us leave we dont make a fuss of either of them, we dont speak we dont pat we dont cuddle, just get our coats shut the door and leave.

From the recordings she seems okay for the first 15 mins and then you can see her listening, ears up, head tilting and then the howling starts and barking...by this time Moo has already gone upstairs to sleep on the bed. She doesnt seem to ever just settle yet when we are there she sleeps all the time, all day long if she could.

I know being a rescue dog and being in kennels is going to take her a while to adjust to home life and our rountine etc

I guess it wouldnt be such an issue if our neighbour was alittle more understanding and not a crazy oddball!!!

Don't forget, though, that waiting in the kitchen is no good - she'll know you're still there, she'll be able to smell you & 'sense' you! They're not that stupid!

Actually go out of the house, even if it's just for a walk around the block.

Other than that, try explaining to the council that she is a rescue dog & you are doing everything possible to reduce & finally stop the barking etc. They're normally far more understanding than people think - plus, they'd rather not do too much work!

I'm sure she'll settle once she feels more secure in a permanent home.

...hmmm I did wonder if sitting quietly in the kitchen would work lol Moo is that stupid tho! Poor old hairy bear

I have contacted the council and explained and they replied saying that they see we are doing all we can and that maybe keeping a diary of when the dogs are left and when they arent as our neighbour was saying they were barking even though we were home on several occassions and we knew they hadnt been barking, so Im keeping a diary of all training done aswell.

I hope she does settle. I am changing my job in three weeks so I will be closer to home and starting later in the day so her rountine will be changing again....I just want her to be happy and settled.

Sound like a dominant dog to me, she's protective of her toys/she leads on walks she gets her own way and to her its her duty to keep the pack together and she did not give you and your partner permission to leave which is why she is reacting so badly and probabilly react badly when you come home as well jumping up on you etc, you and your partner and everyone who comes into contact regulary needs to become the back leader. leading on walks she walks beside you not infront not behind, control feeding, being first in and out of exit and entraces she waits calmly until you invite her. there are many other things to do as well im sure someone else in the forum fill it in, im not well and i don't have the head for it now sorry. but you can start on what i'v said, the walks etc.

MissRogue wrote:Sound like a dominant dog to me, she's protective of her toys/she leads on walks she gets her own way and to her its her duty to keep the pack together and she did not give you and your partner permission to leave which is why she is reacting so badly and probabilly react badly when you come home as well jumping up on you etc, you and your partner and everyone who comes into contact regulary needs to become the back leader. leading on walks she walks beside you not infront not behind, control feeding, being first in and out of exit and entraces she waits calmly until you invite her. there are many other things to do as well im sure someone else in the forum fill it in, im not well and i don't have the head for it now sorry. but you can start on what i'v said, the walks etc.

sorry missrogue but i think your miles off the mark were do you get she a dominant dog and protective of toys leads on walks and jumping up etc unless iv missed all this in any of the posts but i think it simply she needs to settle into her new home

Thanks Bigwazza.....

MissRouge - I do take your points onboard though as although she walks very well on the lead and isnt in fact protective over toys or treats with humans, its just Moo she does jump up, alot! When you first come home she does this thing (think someone has taught her it) where she will put her front paws on your stomach and paw at you, like a child wanting to be picked up. We are ignoring this behaviour to try and get her out of the habbit.

We do control her feeding, we always remove her bowl as soon as she is finished. She is, on the otherhand, able to get away with most things so I think a firmer hand may be of some help, though I dont believe this to be the answer to the SA.

I have never seen any agression in her towards me or my partner, nor Moo for the matter, she puts him back in line when she doesnt want him near her toys, for which she is corrected by us because we dont want this kind of behaviour.

I think it may take time and also some further training. She is great at jumping, she can jump a babygate from standing so I thought agility may be the way to go but because she hasnt had any kind of formal training no groups in my local area seem to want her to attend.

I really feel 4 u, what a awaful situation to be in......im sorry though i really dont no what to sugest anything i would of said u have already done! I will get my thinking cap on though........
good luck in anycase though x

blaze666 wrote:I really feel 4 u, what a awaful situation to be in......im sorry though i really dont no what to sugest anything i would of said u have already done! I will get my thinking cap on though........
good luck in anycase though x

Thank you Blaze - it is difficult esp when otherwise she has just fitted in so well and she is such a daft friendly big lump of staffy softness....she is just adoreable...just wish I could help her but I am running out of ideas.

like u said if it wasnt for this t*at next door it wouldnt be as much of a problem, she could settle in etc and see how it goes but im sure the pressure of the neighbour isnt helping you. I was so lucky when i first brought kaos home, i warned the neighbour of the situation him being a baby etc and the crying and even though kaos cryed all night every night and whenever we went out for 2 weeks solid, he was really understanding and kaos grew out of it, or just stopped doing it lol

I wish my neighbour was like that. I made of point when we first moved in to tell her we had dogs and that for a while they maybe noisey as its all new for them esp Mads as she was new to the family altogether and the neighbour (I shall call her M) was fine about it. Then she started knocking on the door complaining every day etc. Id go round and try and explain Mads needs to settle in but we would shut them in the dining room (furtherest room away from her house) while we were out and M would say oh no dont do that, thats not kind, I am a animal lover and it really doesnt bother me. Next day she'd be over asking why we didnt lock them in the dining room!

I know the previous home owner had problems with M making complaints about the noise levels even tho there wasnt a problem. I have even been to speak to the other neighbours to ask if they could hear our dogs but they informed me they havent heard them and that they know the wall between my house and M's is particuarly thin so you can even hear lighswitches been flicked on and off (which you can) but thats not our fault or mads fault.

Last time I tried talking to M I asked her if she maybe had mistaken the barking from the other dog whos barking a lot in the garden in front of her house for ours barking and she replied, oh no its definately yours, the other dogs in the neighbourhood have only started barking since your two dogs arrived!!! I mean RRRREAALLLY! I found it very hard to stay polite and friendly - touch wood she hasnt been back round since last Wednesday so......we will see.

NikNakMyFirstStaff wrote:Thanks Bigwazza.....

MissRouge - I do take your points onboard though as although she walks very well on the lead and isnt in fact protective over toys or treats with humans, its just Moo she does jump up, alot! When you first come home she does this thing (think someone has taught her it) where she will put her front paws on your stomach and paw at you, like a child wanting to be picked up. We are ignoring this behaviour to try and get her out of the habbit.

We do control her feeding, we always remove her bowl as soon as she is finished. She is, on the otherhand, able to get away with most things so I think a firmer hand may be of some help, though I dont believe this to be the answer to the SA.

I have never seen any agression in her towards me or my partner, nor Moo for the matter, she puts him back in line when she doesnt want him near her toys, for which she is corrected by us because we dont want this kind of behaviour.

I think it may take time and also some further training. She is great at jumping, she can jump a babygate from standing so I thought agility may be the way to go but because she hasnt had any kind of formal training no groups in my local area seem to want her to attend.

Im not saying she is aggressive fair from it its just a dominant dog will do all the thing you have said, she doesn't like the other dog coming near her things. extension lead pretty much equals walks in front even if she doesn't pull, she gets her own way, jumping up when you neter your home she isn't asking for attention she is demanding it etc and they suffer from anxiety whether its seperation or anything else,

She doesn't sound over dominant to me - that's coming from someone who has an ultra dominant dog, so I know the symptoms. I think she just needs to settle in. It sounds like you're doing everything right & everything you can, so I can only think she's still unsettled. If that's the case, she'll gradually get better.

to be honest with you nik nak, when you leave your dogs at home separate them, never leave the two of them together unattended, if the delay before your return is too long they may well start a game of their own a little all in wrestling or ear chewing and such pastimes sometimes goes wrong and tempers become frayed. a fight once started and which develops without interference can end in the death of one or both the dogs. i could give a number of examples, two from my own experience. care in segregating individuals to different rooms before you go out is essential and can save you a lot of money and heartache.

Fair point. I've also known of a situation where it all went wrong, and the owners came home to two semi-comatose dogs & a living room covered in blood.

Morning All

What you have mentioned above, could this not happen between any breed of dog not just because Mads is a staffy. I only say this because Moo is 14 yrs old, I have had him for 10 years now and when left he just goes upstairs and sleeps on our bed....he doesnt play or shows any interest in toys.....we wanted two dogs to keep one another company during the day - is this not wise?? Sorry if thats a daft question.

On a more positive note, last night I put the babygate up across the dining room doorway, put both their beds/cushions in there and we left them downstairs and amazingly other then Moo whining for ten mins as it was the first time in 9 years hes not slept with me in my bedroom, they were totally quiet, not one single peep.

You see, Moo's probably so insecure, she thinks she's going to be left forever, poor little girl. By putting them both downstairs you've reassured her that she isn't alone.

Step by step. She'll settle soon enough when she regains a little confidence.

As to the fights heppening with any breed, yes they can, but a stafford sees red when it fights & often doesn't know when to give in. Even when it's beeten, it'll carry on fighting.

Caryll wrote:You see, Moo's probably so insecure, she thinks she's going to be left forever, poor little girl. By putting them both downstairs you've reassured her that she isn't alone.

Step by step. She'll settle soon enough when she regains a little confidence.

As to the fights heppening with any breed, yes they can, but a stafford sees red when it fights & often doesn't know when to give in. Even when it's beeten, it'll carry on fighting.

Moo is the older male dog, the one I have had for 10 years and not use to being away from me at night....hes fine during the day. Its Mads, or Maddie, or Maddison who has the SA problem but oddly last night she was the one who was totally fine, no noise, no issues, just on their sofa and fell asleep.

Moo did settle down once I went downstairs and sssh'd him. He does what his mum tells him.....

.....so I hope the night time seperation thing is going to help.

Sorry - got the names mixed up!!! Say sorry to Moo & Mads for me!

NikNakMyFirstStaff wrote:Morning All

What you have mentioned above, could this not happen between any breed of dog not just because Mads is a staffy. I only say this because Moo is 14 yrs old, I have had him for 10 years now and when left he just goes upstairs and sleeps on our bed....he doesnt play or shows any interest in toys.....we wanted two dogs to keep one another company during the day - is this not wise?? Sorry if thats a daft question.

On a more positive note, last night I put the babygate up across the dining room doorway, put both their beds/cushions in there and we left them downstairs and amazingly other then Moo whining for ten mins as it was the first time in 9 years hes not slept with me in my bedroom, they were totally quiet, not one single peep.

it doesn't make a difference what age or breed the dog is they will still fight, but nine times out of ten the older dog will come out the worse