My youngest has turned agressive! really need help

hi all

we have 2 males the oldest is 3 year old Bruce and the youngest is 1 year old Burton. We have had them both from pups and both are great with other dogs , obviously burton is a bit hypo as most staffi pups seem to be but it has only ever been play. Sadly Burton has started to take umbridge with bruce as of late and we are now having to keep them apart as much as humanly possible. It allways seem to start from nothing and we can never see it coming , its like someone has flicked a switch! fortunately i have been able to seperate them quickly and cleanly without any damage being done before they go into complete kill mode but i dont think its going to be long before one of them gets hurt and i really cant let that happen.
The last thing i want to do is put another poor young staff in to a rescue centre but i would rather see that happen than them nearly kill each other .

We really do need help with this so any suggestions will be greatfully received. both dogs still have all their gentleman vegetables and the vast majority of the time they are loving towards each other and neither have ever shown any kind of aggression to anyone or anything but obviously im concerned that things might be changing in the younger one.

heres a couple of pics of the two together , as you can see they are gorgeous




heres the most recent picture i have , the bigger of the two is the youngest (Burton)


this whole situation really is breaking my heart.

i'm not sure when they are at the fighting stage it hard to go back, u could try getting them both neutered but it may or may not help.

There are always signs to look out for mostly body language, one raising its head above the others head, stiffness, tail erect, if it is the puppy being dominant present the young ones back side to your oldest this would be submissive behaviour or lay him on the side, its horrible but you could muzzle them so if you dont catch the behaviour they wont hurt themselves, when you see the behaviour you must correct it asap, make the young and old dogs more submissive, leading entering or exiting any property especially your home, leading on walks don't let them in front. feeding when both dogs are calm and sitting.

I really feel for u....its a horrible situation to be in. I have two males myself and dread the day things may go wrong. A couple of thing to bear in mind although u prob no this already. Always separate when ur not there to supervise, never give high value treats together eg) toys bones, always separate dogs then give treats. Make sure your pack hierachy is very strong ie they no u are boss. I would defo sugest neutering espeacially the younger one as some dogs just cant cope with all the testosterone flying about there bodies (i always say imagien having all the sexually urges of a young man and never ever being aloud to have sex). x

blaze666 wrote:I really feel for u....its a horrible situation to be in. I have two males myself and dread the day things may go wrong. A couple of thing to bear in mind although u prob no this already. Always separate when ur not there to supervise, never give high value treats together eg) toys bones, always separate dogs then give treats. Make sure your pack hierachy is very strong ie they no u are boss. I would defo sugest neutering espeacially the younger one as some dogs just cant cope with all the testosterone flying about there bodies (i always say imagien having all the sexually urges of a young man and never ever being aloud to have sex). x

I agree. NEVER leave them, alone together - you will be asking for trouble. Burton is going through a high-testosterone 'teenage' stage where he will challenge, and Brucie is not so old that he will back down, so you really do have a problem. If they have not been neutered already, I'd get it done asap, as it will certainly help the situation. Although 2 males CAN live together, once it has come to full on fighting it is very difficult, if not impossible, to reverse the situation so you must act very quickly. Obviously the advise as to you being pack leader is valid, but it will not stop the challenge of a young male to an older one. It is a natural pack progression.

Yeah as caryll says once their has been a "proper fight" it can be very hard no matter what u do to have them living peacefully together again but on the other hand as long as they are always separated when u are not supervising them the second the younger one starts to act up u will be there with a AH AH and can remove him from the room untill calm and he will learn that the behaviour wont be tolerated.....i would say that technique and the separtion would be the best way to go! Good luck i fear u may need it (dont worry though ur not alone and we will be here to support u, u may be giving me back the same advice in a few months time when im tearing my hair out lol)
x

Thanks for the reply's guys (and gals)
They both allready know who the pack leader is and of that there is no doubt , as far as warning signs there honest to god aren't any! For example the night before last burton was in a semi sleeping state on my lap and Bruce walked by and burton opened his eyes and just launched himself at Bruce , bruce automatically went submissive as he is possibly the most scared dog on the planet but burton just wouldn't back off untill I grabbed him and threw him out in the garden.
We have looked at getting their corns cut but am dubious as to wether it would make any difference as I'm just not sure if this behaviour is in burtons bloodline? Having had a few staffs now this is the 1st time I have ever witnessed this behaviour and it's taken me by surprise .
I really am doubtfull as to wether I can reverse what seems Burtons natural instinct.

well u seem as though u no what u are doing which makes it all the more difficult to advice lol. Although i would say that i really do think having burton castrated would help considerabley and to be honest anything is worth a go when u look at the alternitive of having him rehomed or put into the rescue system. My eldest Ty is 14 months and Kaos is 5 and a half months, Ty was netured at 6/7 months and kaos will be as soon as his balls have decsended properly. I no there is alot of debate on castrating and the correct age but i think especially where there are 2 males/females in the household it really is the sensible way to go. As i said there is no miricle cure for burtons behaviour but i would definatley give the removal technique a go but make sure its done really quickly so as soon as he does go for bruce hes imediatley removed with a sharp AH AH.
To be honest although u havent witnessed this kind of behavoir it really is quite comman in staffs as they are not naturally dog dogs they are people dogs. I would always reccommend if asked to get one of each sex rather than 2 of the same sex as generally they tend to get on better.

just a thought your youngest didnt get spooked alot by the fireworks of late did he and he still on edge like i say just a thought

[quote="daddy coole"]For example the night before last burton was in a semi sleeping state on my lap and Bruce walked by and burton opened his eyes and just launched himself at Bruce , bruce automatically went submissive as he is possibly the most scared dog on the planet but burton just wouldn't back off untill I grabbed him and threw him out in the garden. quote]

I am sorry but when you say there are no signs when there are, but when burton was on your lap thats possessive behaviour (he's saying he owns you when he attacked Bruce when he comes close) when bruce got to close to you he attacked him, that look probabilly was a sign, i know its hard but perhaps you could try not letting him or either of them invade your personal space, i know everyone wants cuddles but thats obviousely not how he is seeing it. I think you may be the pack leader to Bruce but not Burton. It has nothing to do with his genes his father could of been a fighter and he could still turn out be to a calm submissive dog if brought up right.

daddy coole wrote:but am dubious as to wether it would make any difference as I'm just not sure if this behaviour is in burtons bloodline?

It's nothing to do with bloodlines. Unless there are dogs in his past with truly bad temperaments (and I don't mean with dogs, but with humans) then it isn't in his genes. Staffords still have the fighting instinct very close to the surface. It doesn't show in all of them, but it can & does surface in some. It could be that Burton just doesn't like other dogs. It may be something that you'll have to learn to live with. Castration may or may not 'cure' this, but the only way to find out is to do it. You could ask your vet for tablets to mimic castration to see if it will make a difference. It's something you could discuss.

it has nothing to do with bloodlines you're dog is just showing dominance towards your other dog. and telling him hes below me in the pack order

Caryll wrote:

daddy coole wrote:but am dubious as to wether it would make any difference as I'm just not sure if this behaviour is in burtons bloodline?

It's nothing to do with bloodlines. Unless there are dogs in his past with truly bad temperaments (and I don't mean with dogs, but with humans) then it isn't in his genes. Staffords still have the fighting instinct very close to the surface. It doesn't show in all of them, but it can & does surface in some. It could be that Burton just doesn't like other dogs. It may be something that you'll have to learn to live with. Castration may or may not 'cure' this, but the only way to find out is to do it. You could ask your vet for tablets to mimic castration to see if it will make a difference. It's something you could discuss.

He loves other dgs tho! He's been playing with all varietys on his walks and never shown any kind of aggression even when two labs decided they didn't like him , he just instantly went into submission and the labs owners pulled them away .
Earlier today burton growled at Bruce from the other side of the room so I know there's a major problem here somewhere and there's no way I can spend the rest of the dogs lives keeping them separated. I have started taking steps towards finding a dog free home for him to go to as the rescue centres don't or won't touch a staff with behaviour problems. Im absolutely distraught with the idea of losing him so I'm trying to keep him within the family as they all know he's not just a pet he's a member of the family. The vets can't do a castration for 2 weeks at the earliest and they don't seem to be taking the problem too seriously.

if you get you're dog castrated you wont see a change over night if any, it will take months for all the dogs testosterone to leave his body after the operation

I know this is isnt going to help you atol, but we have just gone threw the same with our 2 females. we had to re home our ruby sunday as they started going for each other, we was lucky enough she went to a friend of ours and will be well cared for, but we are so upset its like someone has died it really is so sad. i wish you all the best and you are doing the right thing to rehome as we left it far to late and ruby ended up hurt she has to go and have her throat stiched up. good luck.

amylovesnicky@hotmail.com wrote:I know this is isnt going to help you atol, but we have just gone threw the same with our 2 females. we had to re home our ruby sunday as they started going for each other, we was lucky enough she went to a friend of ours and will be well cared for, but we are so upset its like someone has died it really is so sad. i wish you all the best and you are doing the right thing to rehome as we left it far to late and ruby ended up hurt she has to go and have her throat stiched up. good luck.

Sorry to hear your woe's, Its heartbreaking isnt it.
We have managed to keep the dogs apart for a couple of months now only letting them greet each other under very strict control and it has been ok. its not ideal not letting them share our time together but i feel its working ok for now. Im hoping in time they will learn to tolerate each other slightly better.
It seems as if Bruce (the older dog) is now a little nervous of Burton and seems to be more willing to back away and submit than before but we dont let them interact under thier own steam as a hightened state of exitement could put us right back to square one

Hopefully they'll accept each other in time. Have you considered castration?

just from looking that the two of them's body language in that last photo bruce looks more submissive and soft, burton looks like a challenge! Think you may have to have burton castrated, however as bruce is older and will do as hes told you might be able to sort with training.