Partial cruciate ligament tear

Well I have posted on here before that Sandi had been limping. Originally our vet suspected hip dysplasia or luxating patella. However, x rays and a good feel around under sedation showed nothing on her hips or knee. Our vet referred us to an orthopaedic vet in Bristol - Mr Denny at Fernlea Veterinary practice. Has anyone heard of him and does anyone recommend/ not recommend him? He also couldn't see anything on the x rays. He felt and manipulated her knee for quite a while, and his diagnosis is a partial cruciate ligament tear. He said that there are no signs of arthritis on the x ray. He recommended that we just carry on as normal, and let Sandi have her normal walks. The vet was reluctant to do surgery as although Sandi is limping, she does not appear to be in pain, and still runs around enjoying herself. I am just concerned that she may develop arthritis if this isn't treated with surgery. The vet did say that the ligament may tear completely, at which point Sandi would definately need surgery. Has anyone else experienced this? What do you think about just leaving it? We do give Sandi synflex (glucosamine etc) everyday, and also devils claw.

No one at all?

Fernlea is known for its orthopedic work with dogs. A couple of peopel I know from a GSD forum have been to him with their dogs (HD and cruciate ligament tear) & they speak very highly of him. I know he's also a university lecturer, so he must know his stuff pretty well!

If the ligament only has a small tear, then it'll probably heal itself in time. The vet obviously doesn't want to put your dog through unnecessary surgery, so he's thinking about the general health of your dog rather than just the money he'd make from peforming an operation!

A tear won't cause arthritis, especially if it's a small tear. You'd be moer at risk of him getting arthritis if he wasn't excercised properly, therefore keeping his supporting muscles strong & firm.

I'd go by what the specialist says.

Thanks Caryll, it's good to hear that the vet is recommended. I just hate seeing Sandi limping all the time! it has been a few months now so I don't think it is going to heal on its own. We still give her a good amount of exercise and the vet said she is very well muscled in her hind quarters! So that should help to support the joint. I'm pretty sure that the way Sandi runs around like crazy it is more than likely that she will tear it completely one day, so the stronger we can keep her joints the better.

I'd cut down on any high impact excercise for a while - jumps, running up & down hills, spring poles etc, and see if that helps.

I would listen to the specialist as well and like Caryll says I'd all but eliminate the high impact exercises if possible to give it time to heal.

Our Busta who isn't a staffy but a westie ( breed very prone to this problem) X parsons JRT had a partial tear just like this a couple of years ago, and our vet also said that surgery wasn't needed,but Busta was confined to the house and garden for 4 months with no jumping or running, no going up and down stairs at all either, in fact anything that put strain on the hind leg was banned to allow the ligament to heal. Then he was allowed out on his lead only for short walks for a further month and now he is back to his normal demented self, and menace of the local rabbit population. He hasn't had any problems with arthritis at all although his leg does get a bit stiff from time to time so we just go gently for a day or so and then he is fine again.

Busta is a very livley & energetic dog and we were worried he would go stir crazy which he did a bit for the first couple of weeks but after that he got used to his "house arrest" The muscle density and strength could make the problem worse if the ligament is continuosly put under stain when running and jumping.

Hi kellenny,
After reading your post, I just thought I'd share my experience with you on this one.
Our Rosy (then about three years old) tore her cruciate ligament on her back right leg. A good while before that, she did limp/carry her leg a bit, but one day after throwing a tennis ball for her and she bolted off and came back with her leg held up.
She went in for X-rays, the Vet confirmed the worst and carried out the op. This involved tying the knee joint back with nylon cord in place of the old ligament. Well, the op itself was a complete success, BUT, the healing process was the tough part!
We had to keep her still for a few weeks, and then it was short walks, encouraging her to walk on her repaired leg very gently, building things up as her leg healed.
The problem I found was that her bad leg dramatically wasted away, whilst the other one actually built up!! It took ages and lots of patience to get things back to normal, and she is taking joint supplements to help prevent problems later on.
I hope your Sandi's ligament doesn't end up tearing completely, but if it does, it can be fixed ok. My advice would be not to let her do mad sprint starts out of the blocks, as this is exacly how our Rosys went in the first place.

Thanks for all your replies. I asked the vet if we should restrict her exercise and he said to let Sandi carry on as normal. The only thing we have stopped is throwing her ball for her, as that really does make her bolt. There has been no change in the last few weeks. She still limps when she first gets up and runs a bit funny (hopping rather than running). But apart from that she doesn't appear to be in pain and still enjoys her walks. So I think we will just carry on as we are and see how she goes. We have insurance so if the ligament does tear completely we can afford to have the op. I just hope it doesn't lead to problems when she is older. As said earlier, Sandi is on Synflex, which has chondroitin and glucosamine as well as other good oils.

It is good to hear other peoples experiences so if anyone else has any stories I am happy to hear them!

Thanks,

Kelly

Well Sandi's leg is not getting any better. Our vet has now recommended that as it has been so long and there is no improvement, we should have the surgery, so Sandi is now booked in for surgery with Dr Denny on Friday this week. I am DREADING the recovery period afterwards. We are going to go to hydrotherapy sessions once the wound has healed (about 10 days apparently), this allows them to exercise without impact on the joint, so helps stop the muscles from wasting away. Has anyone else tried hydrotherapy? It is covered by our insurance as complimentary therapy, so that is good!

It sounds like your vet is doing the right thing. I'm sure Sandi will benefit from the hydotherapy. Sorry I do not have an experience of it, good job it's covered by your insurance.

Good Luck for the surgery! And for the recovery afterwards!!!
I have only heard about hydrotherapy for dogs but I have experience with aqua exercises for people and it's definitely good, I think swimming itself might be good as well later?
Thinking of Sandi ><

well, the op went well. Sandi came home same day (yesterday), and is already bored and feeling sorry for herself! The vet has done a TPLO procedure, which means she now has a metal plate in her leg. He aiso said that we should start walking her straight away 3/4 times a day for 10 mins. I was very suprised, but apparently it stop the leg from stiffening up and helps keep the muscles strong. So far we have been for a couple of short and very slow walks today. Here are a couple of photos of Sandi recovering in the sun

Awwwww bless her .. hopefully the worst is over now and she will recover quickly

Aww poor Sandi, hope all goes well for you.

Sounds like a fascinating operation, hope she is soon up and about.

my sam had a bone in his back leg joint, hes only got 1 ligament left in his leg becasue of this bone i keep him on his lead 99% of the time now, i had one of the best joint vet that did the op on him

Hi Kelly
Good to see your photos of Sandi enjoying the sunshine. Our 10 month old bitch, Kora, has just been to the vets and they think she has a partial tear of the crucial ligament in her left back leg. They have put her on anti-inflammatories over the weekend to see if her limp gets better - but I think we know that she is going to need surgery. She is going back to the vets on Monday to have xrays and for a decision to be made. It would be good to follow Sandi's road to recovery as we are probably going to find ourselves in the same position as you and Sandi. Like you fortunately we do have insurance as I think this op is not cheap! As long as we have a happy dog back enjoying her walks again that is all we want.

Give Sandi a hug from us and hope she has a speedy recovery x

Hi Phil,

I have done loads of reserch and would definately recommend the surgery if she has a partial tear. Our vet put surgery off as he said it might get better - it didn't! I think cruciates are extremely difficult to heal themselves. I would just go for it rather than put it off like our vet did. Sandi was limping for 6 months - she should have had this done ages ago. From what i have read, the longer you leave it the more chance the dog has of developing arthritis, as the joint is unstable and rubbing.

Now is the hardest part - the recovery! Sandi is still sore and very bored, but it will be worth it in the end. Invest in a stair gate! Sandi still thinks she can run up the stairs, so we had a trip to buy a gate yesterday to stop her!

Good luck and let me know how you get on x

Hi Kelly

Thought I would let you know that Kora had her op this afternoon. The vet said she had a partial tear and it was best to operate before she fully ruptured it. She won't be home with us until tomorrow so fingers crossed that she is all okay. How is Sandi? I hope she is doing well. We are thinking of starting using the Synflex for her joints as we have been told that she will get arthritis when she is older. Do you think it will help?

We have put our stair gate back up again - after only just taking it down a few weeks ago!! We have also put a none slip mat down on the kitchen floor so all we need now is a dog back home

Hi,

aww bless Kora, she will get over it in no time. sandi is doing really well already. Not sure which op your Kora has, but with the TPLO you can do excercise from the next day. Sandi has been having 4 10 minute walks a day, and is putting a bit of weight on the bad leg. It is getting stronger every day.

I would stick with the Synflex, we give Sandi that too, it is supposed to be good for keeping joints healthy.

Only trouble with Sandi is, yesterday I took the dressing off (on vets advice, after 5 days). The stitches looked like frankenstein, black nylon messy stitches!! At least they are on the inside of her leg. Anyway, got home this evening to find her wound is red because she has pulled half of the stitches out!! Luckily it is healed up pretty well, so it has not split open, but now it looks red and you can see the lines where she has literally pulled the nylon through her skin!! Naughty doggy. She was supposed to be having them out on sat, saved the vet half a job!! Has anyone else experienced this? Do you think it will be ok? Like I said, the wound is stuck together, I'm just worried it might get infected. Hopefully it will be ok until sat, I will put another dressing on tomorrow when I go out so she won't pull the rest of them out.

Good luck with Kora when she comes home! The hardest part is keeping them quiet!

Have you tried putting a lampshade collar on to stop her getting at the stitches?

Hi Kelly

Kora has been home a couple of days now and is doing well, I don't think that I have ever been so stressed!!. The first night we put her in her crate with a lampshade collar on which the vet gave us, she was trembling and shaking as she didn't like it at all. So I slept beside her in the hallway pn the floor all night until finally taking her up to bed at 5 am. Yesterday she had her lampshade on and off depending if we could watch her and she is not so scared of it now. We are going to carry on doing this as we don't want her to get to the stitches. She was back on our bed last night - and we all got a good night's sleep but she had her lampshade on until we woke up and could watch her. Kora had the TPLO surgery, We are not allowed to exercise her for 7 days and then light lead work for 5 minutes for the next 6 weeks. We were told to take the dressing off the night we got home.
Hope Sandi doesn't get too anymore of her stitches. It sounds like the wound has healed but if you are not sure I would contact the vet. I contacted them because of her lampshade but they said she would be okay with it after a few days.

hmm vets seem to give differing advice on the exercise after surgery! Sandi walked from day 1. The wound is less red this morning and is definately healed up so I don't think it will split open. I called the vetline I get with my insurance last night, and I'm putting a dressing on it today so she doesn't take the rest of the stitches out. We didn't get a lampshade - when she was spayed she totally ignored the stitches. I think this time because they are bigger stitches and sticking out they are bothering her! So glad it was healed and didn't split open! eeww

Hi Phil,

How is Kora getting on? Sandi is doing well. The vet took sandi's remaining stitches out 2 weeks ago and the wound is totally healed up. She has now started hydrotherapy, but didn't have a clue what to do on the treadmill at her first session! She was trying to swim rather than walk on the treadmill. Hopefully she will do better next time! She is walking well on the leg, we are continuing her 4 10 minute walks a day. I do worry that she has been too active - she is just a nightmare to keep quiet at home. We have a stair gate but she still runs around downstairs, throwing toys and chasing her tail etc... she is getting very bored and more and more crazy. We have an x ray in 3 weeks and I hope everything is ok. I keep getting paranoid as I keep feeling lumps and bumps! Anyway, would be good to hear how Kora is getting on too x

Hi Kelly
Good to hear that Sandi is doing well and already having some hydrotherapy. Kora is still having walks around the garden only for about 5 minutes a time 4 or 5 times a day. I tried a longer walk on Wednesday but she started limping again so I have gone back to shorter walks. If she is in the house and goes a bit faster she tends to skip on it rather than put her full weight down. Is Sandi walking properly and does she 'skip' on her leg if she is going a bit faster? I'm away for a few weeks, with Kora, and go back to the vets for her xrays at the end of April, beginning of May. I am hoping that everything is going to be okay but still a bit concerned whether she is recovering well.

Sandi skips too when she tries to go faster. She does walk properly on her 10 minute walks, unless she decides to go a bit faster, then she skips a step! She holds her leg up if she is standing still though, and isn't putting all of her weight on it when she walks, but I am noticing she is putting more weight on it the past few days. I am concerned about whether sandi is recovering properly too - the hyrdotherapist seems to think she is doing ok, but I guess we won't know until the x rays are done. Good luck to you and Kora. I will let you know how Sandi's x ray goes in a few weeks. I look forward to hearing about Kora's too. Fingers crossed they will both be ok!

Hi Kelly
Thought it was time to find out how Sandi is doing? Is she nearly back to normal with her walking and running off lead?

Kora is off lead now and half way through her hydrotherapy sessions. She's not over keen on the water and I don't know who is more anxious us or her. It is definitely helping to rebuild the muscle in her leg.

I am still keeping her on the lead around other dogs and not yet back to letting her chase a ball but I don't think it will be too much longer before she can go back to doing her normal routine.

It would be good to find out how you and Sandi are doing.

regards
Phil

Hi Phil,

Sandi is doing well. She had her x rays at 6 weeks post op, and the surgeon said the bone was filling in nicely. He doesn't want to see her again unless we have any problems.

The last couple of weeks her leg has been getting stronger and stronger, and I am noticing that she is putting most of her wight on it when she is standing now, although she does still toe touch occassionaly. Does Kora put her full weight on the leg when standing now?

We have started letting Sandi off lead now too, although I get really worried when she starts tearing around for no apparent reason!! I put Sandi on a lead if there are other dogs though. to stop her from going too crazy. She seems to be running quite normally, with hardly any sign of a limp now.

I think we just need to focus on getting the muscle built back up now. Sandi is still going to hydro - she doesnt like the water either, but she has accepted it now and does well!

For weeks Sandi was very stiff when she first got up, holding the TPLO up until she had taken a couple of steps on it. That seems to be stopping now - I think it may have been due to the muscle being weaker and stiff.

I saw a man whilst out walking last night. He had a lab with him that has had 2 TPLO's - the most recent one in February. I didn't even notice until he told me. He said the first leg took around 6 months to get totally back to normal, so I think we are on the right track! I noticed after he told me that his dog was sitting the same as Sandi does on her TPLO leg - with it sticking up a bit weird! Does Kora do that too?

It is so reassuring to speak to other people who have been through the same thing. So many times I thought Sandi had messed up the op, or that I could feel screws sticking out. But finally I think we are nearly there!

Glad to hear that Kora is nearly there too!

Kelly

It's so good to hear that both dogs are doing well. Veterinary science is sometimes so brilliant!

Any chance of some pics of Sandi & Kora?

I agree Caryll, it's great to hear how these two are getting on and very interesting to read about their progress.

I'm sure the posts will be of great benefit and comfort to others in the same predicament too.

Thanks for your comments, I will put some photos of Kora on as soon as I have taken them off the camera!

Kelly,
Kora sounds exactly the same as Sandi. She is starting to put her full weight on both back legs but uses the good leg when she is tired. She has definitely changed how she sits. She will tuck her healing leg under her and sit to one side. I spoke to my wife's friend and her boxer does exactly the same following the op. It took her boxer 6 months to fully get over the surgery. Kora's 'bald spot' on her back where she had it shaved for the epidural is finally growing back. We have set this as a visual gauge - when it is fully grown back we think she will be back to normal!!

We are really pleased with our vet/insurance company and Kora's recovery after such a major operation. It is good to hear that Sandi is doing so well.

take care
Phil

I will get some pics up soon - will take some out on a walk.

Here's a couple of pictures of Kora.


https://s1143.photobucket.com/albums/n639/big_phil4/