Unacceptable??

I was visiting my Mom today and was eating on the sofa. Troy was sat on the floor giving the usual eyes on my food. I was just ignoring him.

So my younger brothers comes home who is 22 and does the usual winding up of Troy. Picking him up, rolling him on his back etc which he doesn't like as he growls which is not unusual for Troy as he is very vocal. Growls when playing dug or playing in general.

So after this Troy sits down eyeing my food again and my brother goes on all fours and puts his face in Troys face winding him up again but this time Troy went for him, as in tried to bite him.

Now is this totally unacceptable and should a dog put up with anything a humans dishes out without acting out?

Troy has never tried to bite anyone before and has no type of food aggression. I can take food from his mouth or remove his bowl when eating without a problem.

Thoughts please?

Sorry to say this but your brother is an idiot...he'd been winding your boy up, which to me is unacceptable.

I'd be having very stern words with your brother if i were with you!

It doesn't sound like food aggression to me. Sounds like he just didn't want somebody in his face like that. Dogs can't let us know with words that they don't like something. The growling should have been ample warning for your brother to leave him alone; when the growl didn't work, the snap was the only thing he could do to let your brother know that he didn't like it.

Well yes he was winding up, no denying that and with Troy being good natured I guess it just makes you think he would never do something like that.

I'm sure Troy being fixated on my food didn't help but is snapping like that unacceptable no matter the circumstances?

Hi Eleanor,

Thanks for the reply. See above, wrote before you commented

A snap is a dog's way of saying That he had enough of whatever it is you're doing. It might be harsh but if you don't accept that maybe you shouldn't have a dog? Why get a dog and then try and get him to go against everything that is natural to him?

Also, don't confuse a snap with a bite and hold, what he did is perfectly fine, had he gone for your brother properly my answer would have been very different.

It's not about me not accepting it but seeking unbiased opinions on the matter. As he is my boy, I want to ensure my own thoughts on the matter are not clouded as he is my dog.

Our previous dog of 12 year (im not new to dogs) would snap and try bite if you wound him up when he had a bone or something and that was just seen as fun at the time and brushed under the carpet (we were kids) but because Troy is a 'staffy' people look at these occurrences differently.

And I never got a dog and made him do anything unnatural to him, where did you get that from? I live on my own and was visiting at my Moms with Troy.

Under the circumstances, I wouldn't freak out about the behaviour. The food probably did play a role in it, as he probably would have just walked away if the food hadn't been there, rather than snapping. If he didn't make contact and draw blood, he probably wasn't trying to bite - just give a clear warning.

While it's a natural behaviour, it definitely shouldn't be encouraged. Hopefully it wouldn't get to that stage again, as I daresay your brother has learned that he doesn't like people getting in his face, but if he starts to get agitated, I'd just have stern words with whoever is agitating him to prevent a situation from arising.

CMR wrote:A snap is a dog's way of saying That he had enough of whatever it is you're doing. It might be harsh but if you don't accept that maybe you shouldn't have a dog? Why get a dog and then try and get him to go against everything that is natural to him?  

He hasn't said he isn't accepting a dog's natural behaviour. He's just asking if the behaviour should be dismissed or cracked down on. It's a bit of an exaggeration to say that he's forcing the dog to go against his nature, particularly as he's come on here for advice.

Thanks Elanor.

Well no he didn't make contact, he caught his shirt. Seems like he was trying to bite..what else is a snap? It's only because he moved away so quickly he didn't get caught but on the other hand it definitely was not a bite and hold type of attack.

It may seem like I am freaking out but I'm not. Like I say, I just don't want my own thoughts being clouded. I come on here, seek advise and show my brother and mother etc because if I ever try to justify the behavior it just seems as if I am making excuses, so I show them unbiased opinions and advice. Everyone is a dog whisperer now don't ya know!

Apparently Troy is 'out of control' after this incident :\

They definitely shouldn't be blaming him for reacting! In no way does he sound like he's out of control.

When people react like that, I usually just say to them, "If somebody kept shoving you over and pushing you, you'd start shouting for them to stop it. If they continued, even after you'd shouted, you'd probably shove them back, at the very least. A snap is the only thing a dog can do after you ignore its growls - it's his version of a shove."

I would have bit your brother too. Why should a dog tolerate it?

I hope no one told Troy off!

A dogs only way of saying he's not happy is to growl and snap/bite if that is ignored. Troy was clearly not happy and your brother is an idiot for winding a dog up so much that Troy has to growl and snap at him.

You do not punish a dog for telling you he is not happy in this way instead you ensure that he is never put in that situation again!

Load of Tosh , sorry , your Brother wound him up and was warned . Your Brother should have more respect for the breed and its him you need to get under control not your dog  

I don't agree he is out of control either, not one bit. He can get excited yes, but he is not aggressive.

If I ever come on here for advice, I already more or less know the answer to the behavior but again, it just seems like I am making excuses for him, nobody listens lol, so I figure people will take comments on board from others.

I wind my brothers dog up when I am playing with him, blow in his ears etc and he bites me all the time! (yes I know, I'm bad and it shouldn't be encouraged). I guess because he doesn't growl it doesn't appear as bad! He has a black Lab who is basically a giant puppy

Well, thanks for the reassurance. I won't show him this thread for now unless it is brought up again as I don't think he will like reading several people calling him an idiot lol and he is my brother after all.

Gee wrote:I don't agree he is out of control either, not one bit. He can get excited yes, but he is not aggressive.

If I ever come on here for advice, I already more or less know the answer to the behavior but again, it just seems like I am making excuses for him, nobody listens lol, so I figure people will take comments on board from others.

I wind my brothers dog up when I am playing with him, blow in his ears etc and he bites me all the time! (yes I know, I'm bad and it shouldn't be encouraged). I guess because he doesn't growl it doesn't appear as bad! He has a black Lab who is basically a giant puppy

Well, thanks for the reassurance. I won't show him this thread for now unless it is brought up again as I don't think he will like reading several people calling him an idiot lol and he is my brother after all.

haha my brother is massive idiot as well

it could be the effect of this heat wave Europe is experiencing or my strict views on winding up dogs with an already undeserved bad public reputation but I apologise for the above outburst especially since I think you did a great job with Troy.

That said expecting a dog not to snap when being wound up is going against the dogs nature so its best for all involved if you find a way for your brother to understand that.

CMR wrote:it could be the effect of this heat wave Europe is experiencing or my strict views on winding up dogs with an already undeserved bad public  reputation but I apologise for the above outburst especially since I think you did a great job with Troy.

That said expecting a dog not to snap when being wound up is going against the dogs nature so its best for all involved if you find a way for your brother to understand that.

No problem CMR.

I hate the undeserved bad press this breed gets too, which is why I try to be as responsible as possible and ensure Troy is well behaved.

I have warned him about winding him up many a times. Maybe he'll listen now!

Let's hope he does listen now

People need to learn how to respect dogs space. Every dog is different. If some one try to wind up my Debo he would walk away. But some will growl. And I also hope no one told your dog off for doing it.

Gee wrote:
Well no he didn't make contact, he caught his shirt. Seems like he was trying to bite..what else is a snap?

Dogs have three ways of showing they're not happy with a situation. One is to move away, the next is vocal with maybe an air snap & the third is a bite.

If Troy had wanted to actually bite your brother I would imagine that he would have! In that case, your brother moving away would have prompted Troy to follow up, which he didn't. A snap is just that, his teeth coming together, normally in the air without contat with skin, but sometimes ending in a minor nip.

If your brother hadn't wound him up (bearing in mind Troy will be suffering in the heat as much as, or even more than, us!) then he wouldn't have responded. Your brother has to understand that dogs (especially staffords) play rough, and if you push, shove & pin down then the dog will eventually get his own back!

There's also the chance as well that Troy was playing rough?

I suppose i should add you should be proud of Troy at being a very tolerant dog and not going straight for a bite.

Had he done that to Chance, he would have been badly bitten in the face.

jola139 wrote:People need to learn how to respect dogs space. Every dog is different. If some one try to wind up my Debo he would walk away. But some will growl. And I also hope no one told your dog off for doing it.

I never told him off but he did.

Caryll wrote:

Gee wrote:
Well no he didn't make contact, he caught his shirt. Seems like he was trying to bite..what else is a snap?

Dogs have three ways of showing they're not happy with a situation. One is to move away, the next is vocal with maybe an air snap & the third is a bite.

If Troy had wanted to actually bite your brother I would imagine that he would have! In that case, your brother moving away would have prompted Troy to follow up, which he didn't. A snap is just that, his teeth coming together, normally in the air without contact with skin, but sometimes ending in a minor nip.

If your brother hadn't wound him up (bearing in mind Troy will be suffering in the heat as much as, or even more than, us!) then he wouldn't have responded. Your brother has to understand that dogs (especially staffords) play rough, and if you push, shove & pin down then the dog will eventually get his own back!

There's also the chance as well that Troy was playing rough?

No, I totally agree. He never followed up, so I am definitely not worried in that regard. It wasn't a full on bite or attack. I know what that would look like lol.

I don't think he was playing rough, I think it was him basically saying p!ss off! I never considered the heat either to be honest, he had just got back in from a run in the woods with Byson and would of still been feeling the effects. Good call.

ella wrote:I suppose i should add you should be proud of Troy at being a very tolerant dog and not going straight for a bite.

Had he done that to Chance, he would have been badly bitten in the face.

He is very tolerant. I am surprised how much sometimes. He has a few mad doggy friends that will bite his a$$, face, ears etc, the same with a new puppy friend he had. He totally ignores it and doesn't snap or anything. Same with my GF's niece who is just over 1 years old. She plays with him, pokes him and pulls his tongue lol and he didn't have a care.

Yes, it's generally different with kids - Staffords seem to know!

Adults are another matter. I think I'd have probably snapped at your brother as well!

As for him telling Troy off - how dare he! Troy isn't his dog; any tellings off should be done by you, his owner, if you think it's necessary!

From what you saying you've got very tolerant dog. Well done you. And because of that noone should told him off for doing what's natural.
For example : a dog is very tolerant,someone trying to wind him up, the dog just sits there and takes it all until he had enough and growl. The owner tell him off. So in dog's mind by growling he did something wrong in his owner's eyes. So next time he might just snap for a warning,if he's told off again, what can happen next time?

definitely agree with what Caryll and Jola said

You should be proud of how Troy copes and acts in these situations

Gee wrote:... younger brother... Picking him up, rolling him on his back etc which he doesn't like as he growls... my brother goes on all fours and puts his face in Troys face winding him up again but this time Troy went for him, as in tried to bite him.

Thoughts please?

Thoughts.
Hmm.

1) Remove the padding within the text and you have the above.
2) Why did you let your brother roll him onto his back if he doesn't like it?
3) A good way to get bitten by a dog that is not yours is to wave your hand in front of it, never mind your face. And never mind an already agitated dog.
4) Face to face? Really? Pretty dumb.
5) If he'd gone for him properly, you wouldn't be talking about an air snap. Have you ever seen a dog, any dog, "go" for something properly? It results in a lot more than an air snap.
6) The dog seems pretty tolerant.
7) No, dogs shouldn't have to put up with anything a human can dish out. Why should they?
It's stuff like this that ends up in the paper when it goes fully wrong.