Should China withdraw or be eliminated?

Due to the recent revelations about child abuse in Chinese gymnastic training camps, should they be forced to withdraw or outright eliminated? Or do you think nothing should happen?

http://www.chinasmack.com/2012/pictures/chinese-gymnastics-kids-training-with-tears-sweat-dreams.html

I think it's barbaric. They should be eliminated - winning at the expense of children's health & happiness is not on.

all those photos of those poor little kids with their backs bent backwards over a pole is like something out of the dark ages....trouble is in this day and age there is so much pressure on people that they have to be number one or they are a no body....

thing is its been known for years what been going on iv known for atleast the last three olympics so a bit late to be complaining now should have been delt with a long time ago.
plus anyone thay knows about steriods could tell you you could be pump up on all sorts for three years inbetween olympics come clean 6months before the start pick up on even harder training and test clear for steriods(dont mean there not put togetter on steriods)
and yes i beleive they use steriods on the young kids to aid with the healing of torn muscles and stress fractures(young bones can heal within 5 days )before light training starts again

just another proving point that china are cheaters they never done anything in cycling been very poor in all comps the last 3 years poor all this year then go and break WR ?????comeon lets get real they domanating all sports without artifical help ye right

we are watching the bike racing right now and my hubby just said the same thing!!

wonder how they will go when all the running races start! more world records smashed no doubt!!

And the swimmers? I am in medicine and some of those women are almost certainly on steroids.

I can't imagine what it's like for the parents of those gymnasts. Living in a system where you have to give up your (one allowed) child to the government because they decide he/she's got the right kind of body.

They should be eliminated. I agree this has been known for ages but still better late than never. It takes away the spirit of what the games are meant to be about. It should never be allowed to be used as a political showcase.

I think I'll be in the minority here but I don't think anything should happen to them and it certainly won't. They have been doing this for many olympics. North Korea and many of the former Soviet Union countries have similar programs. They put the athletes into camps when they are very young and all they do is train. They are kept away from any distractions to include family and they are entirely focused on their event and becoming the best.

China has and extremely large population to select from so they are going to produce excellent athletes. The IOC has some of the strictist drug testing standards of any athletic association in the world and catch a number of people cheating every year.

jstaff wrote:I think I'll be in the minority here but I don't think anything should happen to them and it certainly won't. They have been doing this for many olympics. North Korea and many of the former Soviet Union countries have similar programs. They put the athletes into camps when they are very young and all they do is train. They are kept away from any distractions to include family and they are entirely focused on their event and becoming the best.

China has and extremely large population to select from so they are going to produce excellent athletes. The IOC has some of the strictist drug testing standards of any athletic association in the world and catch a number of people cheating every year.

But that doesn't make what they're doing right. I don't care how many countries do the same thing - they should all be chucked out! And I know it's been happening for a long time, but it's totally out in the open now & shouldn't be condoned by ignoring it.

It's been out in the open for many years. The Olympics are always full of contraversy and I can't think of any country that has been banned before. Alot of people may not like it or think that it's cruel but the Chinese don't think so, in fact they take great pride in being selected to compete.

Besides if China was banned than why not ban all the countries that do this? Then the question will become why allow countries that are having civil wars and genocides occuring?

To me it doesn't matter that no country has been banned before - there's always has to be a first time for everything! I also don't care whether the Chinese think it's right or not - to civilised people, it isn't.

Civil wars, genocide etc are not the same thing. We're talking about cruelty carried out to enable a country to win at the Olympics, not about any other thing.

Are you saying that what they do is right? That the end justifies the means?

I don't personnaly think parnets should push their kids into any athletic event if it's not what the child wants. I also don't agree with the training methods.

However, to the Chinese it's not cruelity so what would give the IOC the right to ban them? They can ban individual athletes if they are caught cheating but if they were to ban an entire country the rules would have to be changed to prohibit that kind of training or government program.

jstaff wrote:if they were to ban an entire country the rules would have to be changed to prohibit that kind of training or government program.

Then the rules should be changed.

I know they have rules meetings but I'm not sure how often they are. If enough countries were truly outraged and insisted that the rules be changed they would.

I don't see it happening though since the Olympics are about global unity and China plays a very large part in the worlds economy and international affairs.

I definately don't want them to win but with the money and large population to draw athletes from they have a very good chance.

I agree with every point made by jstaff. This does not mean that I condone the Chinese training methods or the use of performance enhancing substances.

Thats terrible I wouldnt agree to a child of mine being treated like this they are mere babies thats not an advocate for sportmanship

one thing that deffently needs to change in other compititions (not olympics but qualifing avents)is not just top three should be random tested i feel thats how china got away with the cycling WRin the heats.
china has done nothing in compition for the last three years and have been really poor this season of comps but suprise suprise they pull that out the bag.
sadly there 4 years between olympics so nothing stopping taken steriods for three years holding back in comps so miss random testing then total come off steriods 6/9 months before the games pick up heavy training and if tested during games will test clear.
this is a practice i know happens as seen it in the power lifting scene

bigwazza wrote:one thing that deffently needs to change in other compititions (not olympics but qualifing avents)is not just top three should be random tested i feel thats how china got away with the cycling WRin the heats.
china has done nothing in compition for the last three years and have been really poor this season of comps but suprise suprise they pull that out the bag.
sadly there 4 years between olympics so nothing stopping taken steriods for three years holding back in comps so miss random testing then total come off steriods 6/9 months before the games pick up heavy training and if tested during games will test clear.
this is a practice i know happens as seen it in the power lifting scene

I don't think that would neccessarily provide a significant advantage. Muscle and strength gained from using steriods don't entirely remain and in fact are significantly losed once someone comes off of a cycle. This is the reason for only taking 6-8 weeks off between them. If you were using for 3 years and than simply quit 6-9 months out your body would regress and not peak.

with hard training the time between regrese can be extended to almost a year
with the use of legal supliments and creatine.
fair doos you will not be at the peak you would with the steriod but you would still have an unfair edge

I thought creatine might have been banned but it isn't. I just don't see how any gains can be kept that far off of a cycle. I also thought that the longer you use or the higher the dose the longer they stay in the system like THC.

no steriods are totally clear from the body after 6 months even with a liver biopsy test .
to be honest china are so far ahead in resurse i would not in the slightest be suprised if they had developed a steriod that cant be detected with standard testing

That's always the struggle with testing. There are people that make lots of money desinging drugs to either not be detected or to mask the results. The IOC list is the most comprehensive that I've seen. There are a few things on there that I used to use and without a second thought.

Hayley wrote:

no its not its debating the situation
you need to have a balanced picture which me and mr j staff are disgusing

bigwazza wrote:

Hayley wrote:

no its not its debating the situation
you need to have a balanced picture which me and mr j staff are disgusing

Indeed, plus I like disagreements

Lol it is off topic! Nothing to do with the QU cheeky

I think its probably because I'm a mother, but I think what those children are put through is absolutely disgusting. How anyone can think its ok is beyond me. If they can't have athletes that have chosen that life when they are old enough to understand everything that comes with it and actually want to be a competitor, they shouldn't be allowed to compete. Forcing young children away from their families and putting them through that kind of training is, as far as I'm concerned, nothing less than child abuse. Absolutely disgusting.

jstaff wrote:I don't see it happening though since the Olympics are about global unity and China plays a very large part in the worlds economy and international affairs.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with Global Unity!

It does, however, have everything to do with economy & finance.

shontelle wrote:I think its probably because I'm a mother, but I think what those children are put through is absolutely disgusting. How anyone can think its ok is beyond me. If they can't have athletes that have chosen that life when they are old enough to understand everything that comes with it and actually want to be a competitor, they shouldn't be allowed to compete. Forcing young children away from their families and putting them through that kind of training is, as far as I'm concerned, nothing less than child abuse. Absolutely disgusting.

Shon, I'm with you 100%.

The OP was should China withdraw due to training practices. The use of performance enhancing drugs fits into the equation. We were simply debating whether or not using these drugs and than going off them provides for an unfair advantage with the agreed to testing procedures

now back on topic lol

i in no way condone the training methods and i also agree it is total barbaric
but bigger picture is the majority of the young kids in these training camps are from the poorist parts of china and are sent to these camps from desparate familys delousioned that they will be giving there children a better chance of a good life.
and better than what may happen to them if kept at home.

bigwazza wrote:now back on topic lol

i in no way condone the training methods and i also agree it is total barbaric
but bigger picture is the majority of the young kids in these training camps are from the poorist parts of china and are sent to these camps from desparate familys delousioned that they will be giving there children a better chance of a good life.
and better than what may happen to them if kept at home.

Not entirely! The sports governing body goes round the schools & picks out likely kids for each sport - then they tell the parents that they're taking them. That's it - no choice whatsoever!

To be honest, I don't see why anything should happen. Not because I don't think it's wrong, but because it's not like the idea of China committing abuses of human rights is anything new, but just because it's regarding the Olympics, it's suddenly a terrible thing worthy of them being eliminated? I don't see the fairness in it. If that's how it should be, they should never have been able to compete in the Olympics in the first place, on point of principle.

ANattyRat wrote:To be honest, I don't see why anything should happen. Not because I don't think it's wrong, but because it's not like the idea of China committing abuses of human rights is anything new, but just because it's regarding the Olympics, it's suddenly a terrible thing worthy of them being eliminated? I don't see the fairness in it. If that's how it should be, they should never have been able to compete in the Olympics in the first place, on point of principle.

And that's the crux of it - they shouldn't. I'm not talking about human rights as far as non-sport goes. But the Olympics is all supposed to be about fair play - that's what they're always going on about; striving to do your best. Not being tortured into doing things that your body screams that it can't do at 5 or 6 years old!