Legs giving way

Hi all,

I have a 7.5-year-old male Staffie cross who went very out-of-sorts about three weeks ago.

I returned from work to find he'd been sick everywhere. He also wouldn't/couldn't move from the sofa and began growling if I approached.

His temperament has always been excellent - never a hint of aggression - so this was a flag that something was wrong.

Eventually coaxed from the sofa by chicken, I noticed he was limping heavily on his front left.
The vet ran some blood tests and also prescribed an NSAID, saying he suspected elbow dysplasia (dog is overweight), and to reduce his weight.

Over the next few days, the dog slept about 22 hours each day, refused to eat much, but his water consumption increased massively to roughly treble his normal intake. He was also sick frequently.

His lameness became very pronounced but would disappear completely every couple of days.

This was then followed by collapse in his other front leg, and extremely uncoordinated movement in his rear - like he was pushing backward as though on roller skates.

He was trembling/shaking continually throughout the day, didn't appear to "recognise" familiar faces and, when he did get up, would half-complete what he was going to do - eg get into his basket but, instead of turning around to see the whole kitchen (as he would normally), would sit facing the cupboard door for minutes, before turning round.

He also began to walk into things, as though temporarily blind.

I also noticed a small, hard white lump on the top of his head - between his ears. I can't explain it more than that, other than it's rock solid and growing out of his skin.

Another trip to the vet and more tests, including one for Cushing's, (negative) and a urine test for UTIs. The vet didn't think the white lump was significant.

The tests came back normal aside from being at the upper threshold for blood sugar, and cholesterol slightly elevated out of range. Thyroid function (T4 test, I believe) showed he was above the midpoint on the scale fairly comfortably.

He began standing facing walls, doors and was utterly disconnected from everything.

The vet advised small walks. 100 metres into one, he fell over - all four legs gave way and he had a glassy, vacant stare but remained fully conscious and did not fit.

Back to the vets, where I asked about tick borne illnesses and symptoms, but was told it wasn't tick season and the dog's rectal temperature was also normal (around 102 degrees).

The vet recommended Zylkene for anxiety. The dog has, until now, always been very confident and outgoing - isn't fazed by fireworks etc, so certainly isn't predisposed to being anxious.

Back home, the dog reacted very badly to anyone approaching him, and continued to sleep excessively.

He refused walking. His limping had all but ceased at this point, though he would just fall over, with various legs simply giving way. He would walk without limp, albeit looking like he was a bit drunk, then just keel over.

He also began to pee and poo anywhere in the house, which he's never, ever done before.

I noticed his neck is extremely rigid - like the muscle is cramped solid (like a brick wall to the touch), and his nose is discharging a lot of clear mucous, which dries white.

Back to the vets. In the vet's waiting room, his legs (differing ones) gave way three times while standing waiting for half an hour.

The vet insisted it was elbow dysplasia and that was that.

I took the dog home and rested him for a week. He's begun to perk up a little but has lost significant muscle mass and has begun to cry if he rolls over onto his back. His legs have stopped going out from under him and ALL signs of limping have disappeared, but his neck remains as stiff as a board, and he's walking in a "drunken" manner still.

The nose discharge has become heavier, though still clear.

His sleeping has reduced to about 12-14 hours a day but he's still "not himself" and keeps having freezes during movement and vacant stares.

His temperament has not improved, sadly - he'll sit and stare then, if you look back at him, he'll growl. He also growls if humans are eating. This is totally out of character and has never been seen in him before.

I'm going to a different vet tomorrow as I'm not happy with a diagnosis of elbow dysplasia. It surely doesn't cause all four limbs to sporadically give out, an ataxic gait, deep personality changes, and prolonged bouts of mental absence?

Sorry for the long post but as an experienced dog owner (five previously), who has a well-trained, sociable animal who was, up to three weeks ago seemingly in perfect health, and was a total pussycat, I'm both stumped and getting a bit desperate.

Any ideas, anyone?

Thanks.

Hi & welcome to the forum. Wish it was under more pleasant circumstances, you must be worried sick.

Firstly, I would change your vet. He seems next to useless, especially as he seems content to say it's ED when it obviously isn't.

To my untrained mind it looks like one of three things - epilepsy, stroke or a virus.

Are you insured? If you are and you want to go to a different vet you should phone your insurance company & explain that you are unhappy with the diagnosis or they may refuse to pay out to the 2nd vet.

After that, try to get some recommendations from other people as to which vets might be more concientious & actually try to diagnose what is really wrong with your poor boy.

Hi Caryll,
I'm due to see a highly recommended vet tomorrow.
I'm not insured, but that's of little importance right now.
As much as I dislike trying to diagnose things by web-searching, his symptoms do fit various tick-borne illnesses, minus an elevated temperature.
We've recently begun walking in wooded areas where deer and foxes live, too.

I am worried, but he is definitely improving at the moment - the most worrying bit was seeing him walk, then his legs slide out or buckle. That, as I say, has stopped, and he is also responding to name-calling, rustling packets in the kitchen etc.

I am also thinking he may have caused some neurological damage through falling over - he sometimes chases the ball, then nose-dives into the ground and flips over after mistiming his "pick-up".

Elbow dysplasia, I'm sure it's not - aside from anything else, he's never limped in his life and was up to 2 hours walking and running a day without complaint.

Thanks for your interest.

I cannot begin to imagine what was going through your mind during all of that. It must have all been very worrying for you. I was going to suggest a second opinion, different vet but Caryll beat me to it.

Please let us know how you get on at the other vet tomorrow, I for one would be intrigued to know what this is all down to.

Hi Kathy,

The main thing going through my mind was how could such degeneration occur so quickly - no tapering off of fitness, no previous limping etc?

He'll growl but let me lightly rub his neck tonight - I thought I'd take the chance on whether he'd snap at me or not - and it is utterly solid, as though cramped and locked. He's a solid lump anyway, a few inches taller than the average staffie, but his neck isn't normally like this.

This might explain why he can't chew properly - he's been "gumming" his food since all this started, like he can't get bite pressure.

Some of these symptoms are sounding like tetanus, or other bacterial infection which release neuro-toxins. Ask the vet if it could be something like this.

Just a thought, has he been vaccinated?

Like you, I'm sure it isn't elbow dysplasia, they're just not the right symptoms. Please do let us know how you get on at the vets tomorrow. Let's hope this one has a bit more common sense & experience.

Hi,

Yes, all vaccinations are up-to-date.

Unfortunately, tonight, he began snarling when told to get off the sofa. He might be in pain, but it's unacceptable, whatever the reason.

So, that's the end of that. Wooden chair on sofa until all this is resolved and we can get back to some positive training, perhaps with a line (I'd swear he's had a memory reset).

I've never seen any of this before.

Now he can't lounge around, he's more active - and there is zero hint of limping, just slight ataxia in his walk.

kathytake2 wrote:Some of these symptoms are sounding like tetanus, or other bacterial infection which release neuro-toxins. Ask the vet if it could be something like this.

Yes, will do. That's a good idea. Thanks.

Hi and welcome from us and Suki. Can't add anything else to what has already been advised and hopefully the new vet will be able to make a diagnosis and get him healthy again.

It certainly sounds as though it's all related. Hopefully the new vet can get to the bottom of it.

My best guess is some sort of nervous system infection or injury.
If it is his neck, taking him out on a lead certainly didn't help as he can be a bit of a puller.
I'll need to get a new harness as he's outgrown his old one.

Hope your new Vet proves to be a little better than your old one , fingers crossed for you

good luck with the vet today, please let us know how you get on

He has quite a bit of damage to the vertebrae in his neck - C3 to C5 (?), I think the vet said.

It took him all of a minute to rule out elbow dysplasia, and rule in a neck injury - going visually by how the dog responded to certain commands on the lead, and general walking.

X-rays followed and he showed me the plates, then explained in detail what is happening to the dog.

All symptoms can apparently be traced back to the injury, which is apparently down to compressed discs (I wasn't really following all that well).

The vet says it's consistent with the dog running head first into something very solid, or even tumbling, etc, which he has done.

Doggo is still in the car, groggy as anything from the anaesthetic, but has a new orthopaedic bed to look forward to just as soon as his wobbly limbs will straighten.

In a nutshell, the vet said imagine you had the worst migraine possible, then compound it substantially, and that's what the dog has been enduring for weeks.

Whether he will recover or not is unclear - he's being treated with some injectable drugs right now - to reduce inflammation and control pain as far as I know.

Surgery is also an option, though not at this new vet's practice - it's a specialist operation. The vet is keen to avoid this, as am I, so we'll go with frequent visits back to surgery for fine-tuning of his medications.

The vet said the NSAID he was initially prescribed wouldn't have done much for his pain.

I'll be following this up with the initial vet because right now, I'm pretty annoyed.

I had a feeling it may have been something neurological. Sounds like the first vet you saw wasnt really up to the job. Go to the website for the RCVS (Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons) and look at complaints procedure.

At least you do now know what the problem is and this is half the battle over.

My hubby said to pass on his sympathies he can completely understand neck pain as he has it all the time too. Shame you dont live closer to us he could put his Ultrasound machine on it which would help.

Yes were right saying C3 to C5 (the C is Cervical this is the latin word for Neck).

Hope he is soon feeling better take care on walks and follow the vets advice for these.

Many thanks for the kind offer, Kathy.

We're due to see the new vet again tomorrow - he wants to see how the dog has responded to the medication to get an idea of what further damage is undiscovered, and how far to bend the curve with pain control (or whether it's about right now).

I have now got doggo into the house (was like walking a serious drunk) and onto his new bed where he has promptly fallen asleep with his face against the kitchen cabinets. There are snores galore.

His neck is a lot less stiff, so I'm not sure if relaxants were given or if it's the anaesthetic, or the other injections.

He's fully awake now after smelling KFC.
Does anyone know if it's ok to feed him now?

What did the vet say about feeding ?

If it s OK maybe just a little plain cooked chicken and rice to start with.

The pain relief seems to be working well.
Just been sat face-to-face with him feeding him bits of chicken - something that would have got me bitten yesterday.
The full ensemble of staffie grunts, whines and whingy noises is out in force now because he wants more.

So pleased to hear he is feeling better. Wanting to eat is a good sign anyway. You can now embrase the full range of Staffy vocals again, wonderful

He's nodded off.
On the blooming floor instead of the orthopaedic bed.
Sounds as contented as I did in my 20s with a dozen Jack Daniels inside me.
So far, a totally different dog to the last few weeks.

How did you get on with the vet today?

Working dog wrote:Sounds as contented as I did in my 20s with a dozen Jack Daniels inside me.

That sounds like Steve, he likes his Jack Daniels!

kathytake2 wrote:How did you get on with the vet today?

He was ultra-calm this morning, walking absolutely normally, neck soft, etc.

The vet was very happy with his walking and demeanour this afternoon, right up to injection time, when he had a good growl as the needle went in.

As the vet said, with as much damage as he's got, the pain relief will only be taking the edge off it, not stopping it completely, so I've got some grumpy behaviour to put up with still.

The main thing is he's confined to bed rest for a week - no walking - which means two bewildered, sad eyes poking out from the baby-gate across the kitchen entrance.

In general, though, he's halfway back to how he was before the injury - behaving well but pretty lethargic at the moment.

He's wet his new bed last night but that could well have been the effects of the anaesthetic (though it's not uncommon in spinal injuries from what I can read up on).

He's never to wear a lead again - must be harnessed. I'm now looking for one which can be clipped on without him having to lift his legs etc. I can only find the usual types in the local pet store though.

I've also been ordered to make him lose 5kg, and have just been adding calories up to get to his requirements - doesn't take much once dry food, oil and chicken are added together.

He just won't eat RAW - I've tried him and he really would rather starve - otherwise we'd be going down that route.

Caryll wrote:

Working dog wrote:Sounds as contented as I did in my 20s with a dozen Jack Daniels inside me.

That sounds like Steve, he likes his Jack Daniels!

I once fell asleep, years ago, in a hedge in January enroute back to my college digs - woke up covered in snow at six or seven in the morning - after a JD promotion night at the local. Not very clever really.

Pleased to hear that Marley is on the road to recovery however long that road may be.

If no walks for a week try some mental stimulation with games indoors, like looking for a treat wrapped in an old blanket or towel, old egg boxes are great for this too. Keep his brain working this will tire him out quicker than going for a walk.

When feeding could you possibly raise the food bowl for him slightly - about 6 inches should be fine so his head is in a neutral position whilst his eats.

I would of expected the odd toilet accident to happen I guess its just a symptom of the anaesthetic, no worries with that.

As for losing the weight decrease the amount of food given gradually. Its all too easy to get carried away with how much they eat, as we like to give treats dont we.

He's never, ever been one for playing with toys.
The plastic bone, rope thing, rubber dog frisbee and variety of Kongs lie outside the back door - unloved, unwanted and unchewed.

The only thing he did take a fancy to was a ball shaped like a pig with a squeaker in it - was sold as being indestructible but I was back at the supermarket customer services counter a night later with the thing in bits. The woman thought I'd chopped it up myself.

The food bowls have been raised by the height of a box file - nice 99p amendment to his feeding station.

He's asleep now, and there have been no cries or whimpers all evening (it had been continuous), which is great because I can get on with writing my uni work up now.

And he's not fussed about going on the sofa at all - that new bed is pretty comfy (yes, I had a roll around on it to try it out for myself )....

My lexi is like that, she only has one toy she plays with everday and its a big industrial plastic tray. Had it her whole life, its on its last legs now with only one side left (she uses the side to lift it up onto its side then barks at the bottom of it lol) she has a new one waiting in her pen that my dad.....aquired...., but has not even touched it yet. shes too in love with her old one

That made me laugh. It's funny how regimented dogs can be.
Mine still carries a stick we found over a year ago around with him at walkies time - he's not interested in upgrades.

I think I might have found the right quick-fitting harness for him, too: http://www.ezydoguk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=382

Really good to hear he's on the mend. It won't be easy to keep him quiet & entertained, but it'll be worth it in the long run!

Working dog wrote:

Caryll wrote:

Working dog wrote:Sounds as contented as I did in my 20s with a dozen Jack Daniels inside me.

That sounds like Steve, he likes his Jack Daniels!

I once fell asleep, years ago, in a hedge in January enroute back to my college digs - woke up covered in snow at six or seven in the morning - after a JD promotion night at the local. Not very clever really.

Ouch!

So glad to hear he is on the mend, please keep us updated

That does look like a very comfy harness, I hope you get on OK with it. Please keep us updated on any more progress, many thanks.

No yelping or crying yet, but he's very quiet and doesn't want to move.
He's currently curled up on the sofa ( ) while his bedding's in the wash - he didn't drink for nearly a day after the anaesthetic, made up for it yesterday with a couple of litres and, bingo, delivered successfully today while I was in work, along with a number two which looks more like it belongs to an elephant.

Hopefully his aldosterone levels will settle back down now, and there'll be no more messages on the bed.

He looked at his dinner as though he was saying: "oh, I get it, you're just teasing me with this small portion, right?"

Alas, my little man, I kid you not.

Signs he's improved: no growling/teeth, no yelps, no whimpering, has come to "say hello" a few times, is responding to calls and whistles (though is looking at me daft when I use the clicker - he still doesn't associate it with a treat or reward).

Most importantly, his ataxia and collapse hasn't shown since his cocktail of happy drugs.

Will order the harness tomorrow once I check what size he actually needs.

Very quiet again this afternoon/evening, but I guess there's not much he can do behind a baby gate in the kitchen to keep himself entertained.

He does like his new bed and thankfully, this time, there were no messages on it when I returned from work today.

He's also settling onto his new diet (Orijen, chicken and EVOO) well.

I let him out the front about 10 minutes ago to see what he'd do. It's a quiet cul-de-sac and I'm the bottom house, so.... five seconds of sniffing around, then he bombed off up the drive, into next door's, across a few boundaries, then back along the road at full pelt.

Very good for a dog that couldn't even walk a few days ago, but it worried the heck out of me in case his legs went from under him.

He's back in now, on his bed, head on paws looking blankly at the baby gate once again.

Poor little chap, but no walkies until Sunday at the earliest, when the harness arrives.

Sounds like a different dog to a few days ago. I guess its just a case of managing the pain really.

It will be lovely to get him out for a walk though I bet. Just take it easy with some short walks.

So pleased to hear he is doing well.

More progress.

He can't sit still - has been to see me, the sofa and the front door about 50 times each this afternoon.

He's back on the sofa again after weeing the bed overnight again - still not sure if it's medical from his neck, or if he's a bit anxious.

Still, the bedding should be dry in half an hour, then he's off to bed armed with a piece of chicken, after I let him out the front for a quick trot.

I've noticed now that each time he yawns, his jaw clicks loudly, though there's no sign of discomfort.

What did he do to himself in the first place? Still mystified.

The neck problems cause muscles all around the head including those attached to the jaw to spasm.

This causes the jaw to move slightly out of alignment, so when the jaw is open the joint clicks slightly.

Nothing especially to worry about, this happens in humans with similar conditions.

The bed weeing could be because he is in pain, so he doesnt have the same control as normal, or because his sleeping position is comfortable and he is in such deep sleep that he just goes.

His medication may have also relaxed the muscles that control the bladder.

Just check with the vet if you are worried.

No bed-wetting since, though he's started getting up at 5am to let me know he needs to go out.
I've started looking at the biomechanics of the cervically-compromised dog with a view to modelling it mathematically in order to possibly design a harness which minimises pressure and impact on the injured vertebrae.
It's certainly not as simple as opting for a harness which avoids the neck at C1-C5.
In the meantime, he seems to be improving further still, but is still quite subdued.

The lump behind his ear disappeared yesterday during a scratching session - looks like it was a very solid cyst.

Wonders will never cease - first raw chicken wing ever.
I poured some cold chicken stock over it - and... gone.

Interesting read here: http://www.skansen.com/nutrition/

Making progress.

He's been in and out of the house at least 100 times today (actually, make that 200), in a sort of scurry-run, which seems to be saying: "I am bored."

He's also decided to try digging on the leather sofa.

His neck is still very stiff and he's still in an odd frame of mind.

Low magnesium is playing in the back of my mind. I've added some lightly blanched greens to his diet - he surprised me by gobbling them down, along with carrots, and some more raw bones along with his kibble.

The jaw clicking has stopped, as quickly as it began.

It sounds like you are making more progress which is great to hear.

Not too sure he should be digging up the sofa though, he must be feeling better.

Unfortunately, after a few promising days where he appeared fairly normal if a little quiet, he's relapsed quite badly.
His back legs won't support him and he's unable to reach his body with his rear paws when it comes to trying to scratch himself.
Looks like (hopefully) intermittent paralysis, and he's back in his bed again, getting frustrated at his inability to stand properly.
It comes and goes - one minute he's up, the next he's falling over.
What's possibly more worrying is that he doesn't appear to be able to feel anything toward the rear end, and is showing no symptoms at all of pain.
We may be down to our last card - veterinary acupuncture.

Sounds very frustrating. I hope the acupuncture works for him. I can't imagine how hard this must be.

really hope he picks up permanently , must be a big worry for you >< EDIT : hope you're not offended by >< I know I'd need one just not off a hairy bloke

Okay, well this is going to sound completely stupid but, here goes:

Yesterday morning, he can't properly support himself.
He can get into a sit, then just stay there.
Doesn't seem to be in pain, just can't get up.
Anyway, he scoots across the carpet a few times on his butt, very slowly.
Later on, he manages to get up, just makes it outside, has a pee, then sits down and starts scooting across the decking.
Worming tablets time, normal dose.
I wait for the inevitable backside explosion which always follows his worming tablets.
In the early evening, he wakes, gets up, and walks, not too badly, to where he toilets.
The usual pebble-dashing follows. He's straining, and giving it his all.

Now, the bit where I look like I've lost the plot - he then runs back into the house, out of the house, onto a garden chair, off the garden chair, up and down the paving slabs below the decking, and around and around the garden.
He's got his smiley face on, has no hint of a limp or paralysis, or neck problems, or dysplasia, or anything.

I'm sat there dumbfounded.

He slept perfectly all night, didn't wet, didn't whine to be let out at six am.

Today, it's as though nothing has ever happened. Totally normal.

What is going on?

Has his straining to poop popped something back into place?
I also read last night that worms can (very very rarely) affect the nervous system, but could that be something to do with it?

We're all mystified, but doggo is looking as proud as Punch.

He hasn't had the acupuncture.

davemck3834 wrote:really hope he picks up permanently , must be a big worry for you >< EDIT : hope you're not offended by >< I know I'd need one just not off a hairy bloke

Being a hairy bloke myself, Dave, I think we'd end up Velcro'd together.

Working dog wrote:Now, the bit where I look like I've lost the plot - he then runs back into the house, out of the house, onto a garden chair, off the garden chair, up and down the paving slabs below the decking, and around and around the garden.
He's got his smiley face on, has no hint of a limp or paralysis, or neck problems, or dysplasia, or anything.

Complete & utter relief!

It's possible that there may have been something that connected the two. I suppose that only time will tell.

My hubby has put this together for you

It sounds like the straining has put something back.

I have neck and lower back problems myself, plus lower limb problems.
I'm also trained as a sports therapist, with some extra emphasis on injury management, and you can probably guess that I chose (or was it chosen?) to take a special interest in back problems.
I've noticed myself that straining the muscles around an injured area can have a dramatic effect on the underlying structures, which tallies with the medical side of things.
As someone who deals with humans I still tell them to see how the pain is before, during and after using the toilet - it isn't just the straining, it can (in lower back cases) be pressure on the spine as well.

Your dog has had a pretty nasty experience - I know exactly what the Vet meant by the worst migraine multipled - I get it myself. The only thing to do here is learn and understand, which means you can prevent problems in the future.

The bad news is that this first remission is unlikely to be permanent - the poor little fella will likely run around and tire a muscle or two which could cause a relapse, but the good news is that if remission happens once, it can happen again.

Get used to feeling the muscles on your dog - right now whilst he is feeling ok. just run your hands over smoothly so you get a picture of where the muscles lie, and the relative tension in them. If he suffers a relapse, do the same thing - try to feel which muscles are tight and which are not. You should also feel the bony prominences (any bit of bone which is palpable (that just means you can feel it)) - the legs are an obvious place to start, but you need to feel along the spine - you will get a picture of what is in a straight line and what isn't.

The whole idea here isn't to become an expert, but to keep an eye on what triggers problems, which will help prevent them in the future.
Bones and muscles can and do heal, and the discs between the vertebrae will, when damaged, sometimes trigger the fusion of the adjacent vertebrae - this is usually a GOOD thing, as it stops the damaged area moving.

If you're unsure about feeling the muscles, try this: get a piece of paper and put it on a flat surface. Put something under it like a pen, and then run your hand over the paper - you can feel the pen easily.
Now do the same thing again and again, with gradually thinner objects until you can find them with your fingertips with no problem. You should end up using one of your hairs - when you can feel this with no problems, you will have a great feel for assessing your dog.

Another thing to consider is nutrition - keep the little fella hydrated and ensure he eats - even in the hot weather when he may not feel like doing so. A bit of honey won't hurt if he doesn't feel like eating, and ginger chews are great if he does feel ill.

Cold packs on any muscle which starts feeling tight are going to help in most cases - it is sometimes tempting to use heat (which does have a soothing effect) but cold actually helps the healing.

OK, enough waffling. I hope your dog has a great future.

Andy.

Wow, thanks Andy - that's is so useful!