dominant male

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dominant male

Post by stokes on Thu Nov 10 2016, 10:38

Just adopted a 15wk female staffie x, I have a 15mth old staff that won't let her alone he's not biting just using his weight to push around and hold her to the ground but this goes on for ages with know let up. She's started to growl and bite back but he hasn't copped on. I know it's his territory but will he soon give up and leave her be or is this going to turn into something worst. He is nutered and both walk perfect on leads he doesn't bother her but once back at house it starts again. I only have her 2 days got her from rescue center. Hoping he'll get over it and our of his system because he is normally good with other dogs. Help any advice
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Re: dominant male

Post by LizP on Thu Nov 10 2016, 12:38

Are you sure it's not play? Staffy play can be very physical and holding each other down can be part of it.

Having said that, part of the purpose of play is to work through respective strength testing, not for 'dominance' but to know where everyone stands. I don't believe in dominance as the cause of so many behaviours to get dumped at its door, but it is important for the harmony of a group for individuals to know who is strong and who isn't, so they know how far each can push another and when the chips are down who will give in and who won't.

My guess is that what you're seeing is probably all part of that. I would keep an eye on your pup's reactions to make sure he's not knocking her confidence, and also start working on being able to ask them to break off any interaction when you want. If you want a hand with ideas on how to do this, just ask. I'd let them play, then ask for a break.

I would also say that you're probably also dealing with the excitement of the new situation and Dexter learning how to deal with it. He needs to learn that he can be with her without pestering her. If necessary, pop him on a lead so that you can ask him to stay in the same space as her but quietly.

Well done on the rescue, by the way!


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Re: dominant male

Post by stokes on Thu Nov 10 2016, 13:15

Thanks for the advice. I tell them to stop and they do but 5 mins later he's all over her again. I was thinking of getting a crate to do time out with her with her toys in it as they told me she was use to the crate, and it would be handy at night because last night at 3am they were still at it and it's to much for her. She was adopted out already but taken back because she was on her own the hole time in the back yard. But the other concern is he's not reading the signals and she starting to fight back she has drawn blood under his chin, I know her teeth are like needles as she is a pup but it's worrying that he doesn't have a clue and continues to play when she don't want to.
Other than that he always got on with other dogs play fight since she's here full time he don't know when to switch off and I don't want to hand her back
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Re: dominant male

Post by Mia05 on Thu Nov 10 2016, 13:16

im sure your dog will settle in time you have to give it at least 2 months for tge dog to settle in well done on rescuing.xx


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Re: dominant male

Post by LizP on Thu Nov 10 2016, 15:20

Can you take some video of them, Sarah? I would be really surprised it if is serious but obviously you are there and can see it, whereas we're not. Puppies don't normally fight back - it's extremely rare that it is anything serious with them - and in particular a 4 month old is not going to fight with an adult. It's like 4 year old child getting into a real fight with a burly teenager.

What I would be more concerned about is if she starts to look worried and/or tries to avoid him. That doesn't seem to be happening though, from the sounds of it!

But, I do think you need to be able to ask for time out from playing. I use the command 'enough', which I teach using treats, which means stop playing. You do sometimes have to keep repeating it because their excitement levels have raised, but persist and you should get there. It is very, very early days. Please don't think about giving her back, not yet at least!



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Re: dominant male

Post by Dukes Momma on Thu Nov 10 2016, 16:11

I agree with Liz, staffies do play rough, and puppies have sharp teeth. If the puppy were scared I think it would hide.
Timeout is needed as Liz suggests and perhaps a different bed or crate for night time so they can sleep
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Re: dominant male

Post by GRAHAM.C on Thu Nov 10 2016, 23:03

Yes,I would think it's staffy rough play and Dexter enjoying the fun with his new playmate.And I would most certainly crate the pup at night time,she will enjoy the rest which is most important at that age.
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Re: dominant male

Post by stokes on Fri Nov 11 2016, 11:21

Went for walk last night with both of them all good came home and he was just pushing her around with his shoulder but nothing major he lays down on mat in front of fire and she was on sofa beside me. Every now again he would come over and lick my hand to rub him which I did and made a fuss all good.
Then when going to bed he went to his own bed and her in crate she whinge for 5 mins the settled came down this morning all good no mess from puppy either made. Let them both out for toilet and they started to play but this time chasing each other not as dominant as usual.
Bought them into feed she wanted to eat from his bowl he didn't mind but put her in crate to get her to eat own food as on different. So far so good have put up toddler gate so his time out is in sittingroom and she is in kitchen which is working. As I'm writing this 2 of them a sleep together a bit of pushing at first with his shoulders but fast a sleep now.
I make a fuss and reward him when he's been good with her and he learning quick so looking promising
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Re: dominant male

Post by gillybrent on Fri Nov 11 2016, 11:28

Sounds like it's going great guns, but if i were you, i wouldn't let her take food from his bowl - that's one thing that can spark problems. not always, of course, and it may not happen, but better to be safe than sorry. once they are totally okay with each other it won't be so bad, although i've never let any of mine eat from each others' bowls.

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Re: dominant male

Post by stokes on Fri Nov 11 2016, 11:51

No I want her to learn to eat from own kept putting her back to bowl hers at other side of room but kept coming for his so put her in crate to eat. So a bit of training to do but learning quick. It's handy I work from home so I have the time to spend on them and they always have company and so do I
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Re: dominant male

Post by gillybrent on Fri Nov 11 2016, 12:22

they make a lovely looking pair, don't they?

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Re: dominant male

Post by stokes on Fri Nov 11 2016, 12:52

They do glad I rescued her just like my lad last year. They said she was a staffie x collie or "borderstaff don't know but a cutie with plenty of energy
They both have calmed down suppose all of the excitement of a new playmate. I didn't know what hit me either. So happy
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Re: dominant male

Post by LizP on Fri Nov 11 2016, 15:12

I reckon in a couple more days you'll be wondering why you were worrying Big Grin. They both look extremely happy together.

That shoulder shove is quite common with staffies. It's a way of saying 'oh go on, play!'. We call it 'doof'. Chaos does it at full speed, Millie is a bit more girlie about it but still does the same shove. Very normal!



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Re: dominant male

Post by stokes on Fri Nov 11 2016, 16:19

When she gets really annoyed she's showing full teeth and growling at him sometimes biting he don't pick up on warning so now I know when she had enough before it gets that far and separate them. It's all new to me only ever had 1 dog but really enjoying this experience
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Re: dominant male

Post by stokes on Sat Nov 12 2016, 08:33

Still the same not seeing when to back off, that enough is enough even ignoring me now taken him by the collar and he's still going for her to play and she's had enough. Can't send video for some reason.
Watched other videos of staffs playing and that's the way they are, but then she wants to stop he won't she growling and biting then trying to hide and he's still coming. Just wasn't expecting it to be like this.
His poor face is a mess from her baby teeth when will this stop the fighting don't want to have to hand her back
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Re: dominant male

Post by LizP on Sat Nov 12 2016, 09:08

Hmmm... that is more than I expected, I have to say. Reading back through your posts, though, it does seem like there are moments of calm and that he does have times he seems to be learning, so persevere a while longer.

I think I'd be working along the lines of you controlling their interactions a bit more. Let them play but when you call 'enough', then pop each on their side of the baby gate with a bone or chew or something to help him calm down. I'd also be putting him on a harness and line in the house at times, asking him to be in the same room as her but quietly.

Keep his exercise levels up as well, to try and get some of it out of him but not during interactions with her. And if you do structured training, I'd make sure that keeps going, partly for its own sake but partly also for stimulation away from her.



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Re: dominant male

Post by stokes on Sat Nov 12 2016, 09:24

Thanks for that, I bring the 2 of them for sort walks in the morning then in the evening he gets his 2hr walk even before pup arrived he was hyper after this walk even though during the day play ball and tug with him. I'll keep going with it and do what you say. I've cleaned up his face and put some antibacterial powder on it. Both out in back playing grand he's watching me through the window at the same time and walking away from her maybe his face is getting to sore and he coping on. Thanks for all the advice and so sorry for going on about it. But he's still my baby and big softie at heart he just wants to play he is a pup too only 15mths but a big pup at 22kg. Thanks again for everything
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Re: dominant male

Post by LizP on Sat Nov 12 2016, 20:29

What do you feed him, Sarah? Some staffies are just very high energy but sometimes it can also be made worse by certain foods, especially cereals. It might be worth trying him on grain free to see if it helps.


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Re: dominant male

Post by stokes on Sat Nov 12 2016, 21:39

When I got her she was on burns i,m gradually chaging her to royal canin like him. But she is also crossed with a collie so maybe that how she has high energy . She is only little bit of a thing she's under weight only 8kg at 15wks so have to fatten her up. He's 22kg and she well able for him. Someone had and just left her in the back garden. I know it will all work out she's in a good home now

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Re: dominant male

Post by LizP on Sun Nov 13 2016, 08:40

I was more thinking of what you feed Dexter, if he's always hyper. Royal Canin in better than Burns but not much, and I think all of their range contains grain. I would see what you can get that's sugar/additive/grain free and better quality. I don't know what's available in Ireland. This is a good website for information on contents and quality,

http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/the-dog-food-directory

Bear in mind that some sorts are available more easily online, so you're not stuck with what you have close to you.

What's her name, by the way?


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Re: dominant male

Post by stokes on Sun Nov 13 2016, 11:14

Her name is molly.He's on royal since he was 10wks old he was never hyper before. It's only since Molly came he is. He was socailize with other dogs but on lead only because in Ireland they have to stay on lead, so he never really played with another dog until now. He's been attacked twice by a lab while on his lead and he thought the lab was playing and his tail still wagging not realizing what actually happened. The third time we met the lab took Dexter's muzzle off and man went to other side of road even though Dexter wouldn't do anything.
So maybe Dexter not as socailized as I think but that's the laws fault with been on lead at all times and muzzled. Hopefully he'll calm down and realize molly not going anywhere. I'll have a look at the site you gave me and thanks again for everything you have been so helpful.
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Re: dominant male

Post by lexii on Tue Nov 15 2016, 00:05

I would have a crate for both that they go into when you are not there to stop them playing or whatever they are doing. Normally dogs won't injur each other in play, they won't allow eachother to. I don't mean to scare you, but there will be one day one or the other will push too far and you will end up with a very inured dog. You need to let them know how much play is acceptable.



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Re: dominant male

Post by LizP on Tue Nov 15 2016, 08:05

I can't see how adding frustration to Dexter's excitement at having a friend in the house will help him learn that he can be quiet around her. Leaving them in separate rooms where they each have plenty of space and freedom is one thing, but relying all the time crating both of them? How does that have any added benefit to the learning process?


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Re: dominant male

Post by stokes on Tue Nov 15 2016, 10:27

I'm not going to crate Dexter never did he had the freedom of the house. As it is Dexter is a bit down in himself. Watching both of them Dexter playing normal been gentle then walking away but molly biting don't know when enough is enough. He could be a sleep and she would go over biting his ear but not gentle bites. So every time I see her do it I take her away and correct her it seems to be working and still making big fuss with Dexter.
Dexter so quite he needs to give a warning when he's had enough. She was never socailize with other dogs she was locked in a back at 10wks old for 5wks before she was rescued and adopted out to us so she has alot to learn.
They're playing in garden now so far so good she hasn't touched his face yet. I'll keep working on it but sometimes I wonder did I do the right thing because Dexter was happy and I thought I was doing good getting him a playmate maybe I should have let it be.
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Re: dominant male

Post by lexii on Wed Nov 16 2016, 19:47

LizP wrote:I can't see how adding frustration to Dexter's excitement at having a friend in the house will help him learn that he can be quiet around her. Leaving them in separate rooms where they each have plenty of space and freedom is one thing, but relying all the time crating both of them? How does that have any added benefit to the learning process?

-sigh- i dont know why i bother posting here anymore.
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Re: dominant male

Post by stokes on Thu Nov 17 2016, 12:41

Unfortunately I have to give molly back to rescue home. Maybe a pup wasn't right choice. Today playing out in garden I was watching carefully then molly bit the side of Dexters face he snapped back and rather molly getting a warning the hairs stood up on her back full teeth showing Dexter ran out of her way while I ran out and left a roar before anything could happen.
So I had to make the choice of giving her back. Dexter gone quite with family members especially my little boy, he wants to know why he won't play with him anymore.
I'm not going to give up on rescue dogs the right one is out there. Molly is a gorgeous little girl who loves the attention and really wants to please. Hopefully she'll find her furever home soon.
Thanks everyone for all the advice
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Re: dominant male

Post by LizP on Thu Nov 17 2016, 18:15

It does sound like it wasn't the right match. I think you've handled the situations incredibly well, taking everyone's needs into consideration but above all Dexter's. I also think you tried for long enough to know that it wasn't working, but ultimately a relatively early decision does help minimise the emotional strain of calling it a day.

As you say, a puppy may not be the best match, maybe a lower energy dog, possibly a different breed, maybe even an older dog that will still be company but not such a full on playmate.

You sound a lovely, lovely person. Dexter is very lucky to have your family as his.


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Re: dominant male

Post by Dukes Momma on Thu Nov 17 2016, 19:17

What a difficult decision to have to make, but it seems like it's the right one under the circumstances.
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Re: dominant male

Post by stokes on Thu Nov 17 2016, 21:16

Thanks again everyone, I'm dropping molly back tomorrow. I think she more of a people dog and make someone a lovely pet.
Just going to look after Dexter and make sure his face heals ok I say he's going to have a few scars not just face but chest and stomach. It just didn't work, I'm going to wait after Xmas and maybe look again. Thanks for the support
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Re: dominant male

Post by GRAHAM.C on Thu Nov 17 2016, 22:14

Good on you for trying to give a rescue dog a chance of a good life.I have been following this thread with interest from the very start,but the more you posted the updates I was getting the feeling this is not going to work.The longer it went on it was only going to make Dexter think what have I done to deserve this.
You have done your best but it hasn't worked out for you,so I agree taking her back to the home was your best option.
Perhaps if you are still interested in a rescue mate for Dexter maybe he could meet a couple of times on neutral ground to see how they get on.
Best of luck to you and Dexter in the future.
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Re: dominant male

Post by gillybrent on Fri Nov 18 2016, 11:10

that's a shame, but you tried your hardest. sometimes it just doesn't work out.

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Re: dominant male

Post by Dukes Momma on Thu Nov 24 2016, 10:38

How is Dexter doing, has he settled back into his normal routine?
It might be worth considering fostering, then if you find the right dog you can adopt.
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Re: dominant male

Post by stokes on Thu Nov 24 2016, 11:16

He's doing well now, has a few scars underneat and on face. He was getting stressed out when she was here. Chewing on feet and he went off his food and the day she went he was getting sick, bought him to vet told him the story put it down to stress and gave him something for a view days. Now I have my bubbly Dexter back he playing with everyone love going on walks again and tearing around the house with his squeaky toy wrecking everyone's head. So by the look of things he'll just go playing with other dogs and maybe next year we might try again maybe with older dog and introduce slowly overtime. It's nice to have him back. Thank you for asking about him☺
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Re: dominant male

Post by stokes on Thu Nov 24 2016, 11:24


loves all the attention to himself
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Re: dominant male

Post by Dukes Momma on Thu Nov 24 2016, 11:52

That's good news. Sometimes staffies prefer to be people dogs.

Our last( R.I.P bless him) staffie loved everyone, but our border collie who was about 6 when we got him, but she never liked him and they never played together for the 4 years that they lived together, they just tolerated each other. He was best friends with our farm cat.

l now have Duke and a farm cat and a kitten. This seems to work well.
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Re: dominant male

Post by stokes on Thu Nov 24 2016, 12:50

I think Dexter is going to be the same play with them outside of the home but when he comes home it's all about the people and enjoying there company. He's like that when out staring up in peoples faces wagging his tail look at me. So maybe he's just going to be a people dog.
So sorry about your last dog.
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Re: dominant male

Post by Mistys Mum on Thu Nov 24 2016, 12:52

Glad to hear Dexter is back to being himself. They are such sensitive little souls aren't they.


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Re: dominant male

Post by stokes on Thu Nov 24 2016, 12:58

I know I think there the most sensitive out of all the dog breeds, love him to bits
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Re: dominant male

Post by Dukes Momma on Thu Nov 24 2016, 15:01

Yes and they love their people to bits, just as we love them Smile
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