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Post by Cyril baby on Sat Jun 01 2019, 18:14

I hope it is ok to post this, the care of the seized dogs is a disgrace, many are being returned home in terrible condition, thin, often with sores, behaviour problems that they didn't have when they were seized, and 1 dog had his tail docked, his owner found out when he was taken out of the van.   Several dogs have died because they didn't get the vet care they should have.     A petition has been started to get better treatment for these dogs, the police set a dog they were seizing on fire which started this petition.   This is Tyson's story, when it first came through we couldn't believe it, then we found out it was true, it is horrendous.

On the 17th May 2017, Three Police officers accompanied by two dog handlers arrived at the home of Tyson’s family with a warrant and opened the front door to the property, without entering fully one of the officers called out to see if anyone was home. At the time only the young daughter aged 17 years old and the families then ten-month-old dog Tyson were at home. Tyson as any family dog would do, ran down the stairs, jumping up at the slightly opened door and barking at what he would have felt was the intruder holding the front door ajar with his foot, who was now calling for someone to come and remove Tyson to another room.

At the time the daughter of the family complied with the police request and put Tyson in the back garden in order for her to talk to them. The police then went into the kitchen of the property where they could observe Tyson through the patio doors and decided they felt he was a pit bull type. After several failed attempts to get him using the catchpole through a slightly open door, they decided to close the patio door and stand in the kitchen whilst they asked the daughter to help.

Unbeknown to the police, Tyson could open doors and did so with the patio doors entering the kitchen barking and growling. The police retreated from the property, going to their vehicle and came back wearing protective suits, armed with an aerosol of bite back spray. This usually subdues dogs but had no effect on Tyson. The decision was then made to deploy the Animal Control Shield and a larger canister of bite back.

They sprayed him again and he banged into the shield prompting them to activate the electrical current which sparked and reacted to the butane in the bite back causing Tyson to catch alight to his left side, neck, and face.
One of the dog handlers had to then pour a bowl of water which had been left in the kitchen sink onto him, which did not extinguish the flames, whilst the other dog handler filled a pan with water and threw this over him. Tyson, understandably hysterical and traumatized ran off and crashed into a table containing alcohol that fell and spilled luckily not onto Tyson, as alcohol being flammable could have made the circumstances much worse than they already were.

The police have admitted this were their fault as they did not know the bite back contained butane gas and that they had not received any training in the use of bite back, yet, in the Manual of Guidance issued by the National Police Chiefs Council it says DO NOT use near an electric shield. The effects of which left Tyson both traumatized and stressed. And as a result, Tyson had been confined to his kennel and a small run for 18 months with no exercise as he was in Fidget mode (avoidance) too afraid to allow anyone near him. Resulting in growling and backing off refusing to engage with the people meant to care for him.

Under section 9.2(e) of the Animal Welfare Act 2006 (AWA 2006) Duty of person responsible for animal to ensure welfare. (2) For the purposes of this Act, an animal's needs shall be taken to include - (e) its need to be protected from pain, suffering, injury, and disease.

By keeping Tyson held in his kennel for the period of 18 months, without seeking any help from a behavioural expert or veterinary care to his injuries, the lack of exercise is surely a breach of the Act.

The police could have avoided all this had they taken an alternative approach as suggested at court by James Parry acting solicitor to the family, instead of the lack of communication and attempts by police to bring this case to court sooner. All of which have resulted in further stress to Tyson being isolated like this for all this time in kennels suffering from stress.

The police said at court they had been unable to interact with Tyson or enter his kennel due to him behaving aggressively and charging the door, however an independent assessment of Tyson by Mike Barnett of Orion Dog Services accompanied by Debbie Connolly shown on video in court showed that Tyson indeed did not want to interact and was subdued. However Mr Barnett was able to enter the kennel without being attacked, instead Tyson retreated away acting in Flight mode.

Another important factor, in this case, was the owners daughter rang her mum who was at work at the time the police arrived. And She explained she would come straight home to help get Tyson in the van which was ignored by the officer on the telephone and that information not passed on to the two dog handlers present. It is the belief of the family that this would have made a huge difference. But they, the Police would not wait instead of choosing to proceed.

The police also admitted in court, there had never been any complaints about Tyson prior to him being seized regards his behaviour or welfare, nor had the family ever been brought to the attention of the police as they are good standing citizens.

On the 16th November 2018, Tyson was given a destruction order at Birmingham Crown Court. On the 28th November the sum of £180.00 was paid over to West Midlands Police for the cremation of Tyson. Sadly it was not until another six weeks the owner was notified that Tyson’s ashes were ready.

These dogs are desperate for our help, please sign and ask your friends to sign to help these dogs who have been dragged from their loving homes and put in kennels, sometimes for several years.   We are still fighting to save Olive, a stray who has been in kennels for just over 3 years.

Petition  for better treatment for seized dogs
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Post by gillybrent on Sat Jun 01 2019, 19:53

Whilst I will be happy to sign the petition, it all comes down to whether or not a dog us of a 'type'. 

As much as we all HATE BSL, it's the law & dogs will continue to be taken. 

It's up to puppy buyers to ensure they buy or adopt a dog who is NOT 'type'.

This situation was reprehensible & indefensible, but Tyson was a pitbull 'type' & so was seized. Liz will tell you the heartbreak of not being able to rehome a friendly, living dog because it's a 'type'.

By all means campaign for the end of BSL. By all means campaign for the better treatment of seized dogs and/or the training if police officers in these matters. But the sad fact is, Tyson would probably have been pts anyway.  Sad

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Post by Cyril baby on Sat Jun 01 2019, 21:11

Not all seized dogs are 'type', dogs are seized under the DDA as well as BSL, most are big dogs, GSD, Collies, Boxers, Mastiffs etc, even a Yorkie was seized and was ordered to be kept on a lead and wear a muzzle, she had bitten 10 people that was known.  Someone only has to report your dog has bitten them and your dog is seized, doesn't matter if the person doesn't have a mark on them, you are guilty of having a dangerous dog and have to prove you are innocent which goes against everything this country has believed in up to this legislation.

A Couple of years ago a litter of 12 Staffie/Labrador puppies were assessed when they were about 8 months old and went through the courts, 10 were deemed not 'type' and 2 were 'type.  One of the 'typed' dogs appealed and was assessed by an independent assessor who said he was 'not type' and his owner won, we don't know what happened with the other pup.   Both Staffies and Labradors are on the Kennel Club's list of breeds of good temperament but cross them and their head has certain measurements they are said to be dangerous dogs.

Many owners of dogs that are exempt were prepared to accept the dogs as 'type' because they couldn't cope with the stress and wanted their dogs home.  Dogs have been assessed as 'not type' and are on the exempt list which they shouldn't be.  Tyson was so traumatised and never received they help he needed when in the police's care, they had made him dangerous.  

Dogs on the exempt list can be rehomed now, they do have to have a good reason to rehome them like serious illness, death of owner etc.  A couple of months ago there was an appeal for someone to adopt an exempt dog.  

A few years ago there was a man killed by a Staffie not far from me, this dog was known to the police as aggressive to both dogs and humans,  there was a lot of complaints against her.  The police seized her and let her go back to her owner as she wasn't 'type', 3 days later she killed a man, she may not have been 'type' but she was a dangerous dog.

As to people buying a puppy having to ensure that the pup they buy isn't 'type' that is impossible, you don't know how a cross breed pup is going to grow, many Labradors will fit the measurements if they were measured.   Staffies/Labradors do make good family pets.
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Post by gillybrent on Sat Jun 01 2019, 22:41

If a dog us aggressive, no matter what breed or size, it must be dealt with! Whether that's muzzling in public,  mandatory training/behaviour modification or something more draconian, it has to be controlled. A bite from a chihuahua can be just as dangerous as a bite from a bigger dog, depending on circumstances.

Yes, I agree that seized dogs should be treated well, and officers should be fully trained to handle situations that arise, but aggression in a dog MUST be addressed.

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Post by Cyril baby on Sun Jun 02 2019, 07:35

Nobody is saying that aggressive dogs shouldn't be controlled, of course they do, the police need to do their job properly and go for aggressive dogs and not for their looks.  It is costing the police about £3,000,000 a year dealing with seized dogs and many are now going home as they are not aggressive, they were seized because of their looks.

Those who are trying to change this legislation want the aggressive dogs taken off our streets, they are trying to change it so that good, well behaved, well trained dogs are not seized for their looks.  

How many have had their dog attacked by a small, untrained dog whose owner picks them up to control them?  My small dog is treated the same as my bigger dogs, she is trained and is obedient, this is how all dogs should be not just the bigger dogs.  If a small dog attacks your big dog and your dog retaliates, it is your dog that is seized not the small dog that attacked if the owner reports your dog as aggressive and says that she/he was frightened of being bitten.

This petition is not about which dogs are aggressive and which are not, which dogs look like 'pits' and which dogs don't, it is about the care of dogs when they are under the police care.

A man was out walking his dog when he had an accident or was taken ill, can't remember which now, the police took the dog and told the man they would take him home as he was admitted, they didn't, they put him in kennels.   They then sent the dog to a rescue who rehomed the  dog without his owners knowing or permission and couldn't get any information about their dog.  They are desperately trying to find him.   Anyone who has had their dogs in police care for any reason know how difficult it is to get information on how they are doing, I know because it happened to me.   I was found unconscious on the bathroom floor, the police took my 5 dogs and put them in their kennels, these can be boarding kennels.  I was in hospital on 2 drips, I kept phoning the police about my dogs as I had somewhere for them to go.  The people who were going to care for my dogs never got them until I threatened to sign myself out to get my dogs as no matter how often I phoned the police I couldn't get any information.   When they did agree to let my dogs go to these people they then said that they couldn't transport them for a week, you cannot pick dogs up that are in the police care, the police have to deliver them to you.   The hospital contacted the police in the end because I was not making any progress, I was so worried about my dogs.

No animal should be put in isolation for months and sometimes years, not walked, never see anyone unless it is to have their kennel cleaned and them being fed.  No interaction for the staff, not being able to see other dogs, there was a case a couple of years ago where a dog had been like this for 3 years then was pts.   Another for 2 years, people found out about this and put up a fight to help this dog, they won and the dog was first treated a bit better then released back to her owners.  

I thought that as this is a Staffie forum people would want to see life made better for Staffie crosses, most seized dogs are Staffie crosses, it seems that it is more important to have your say on aggressive dogs and it doesn't matter about what the dogs go through when in police care.  

Common Staffie crosses that have been seized by the police are:

Staffie/Labrador.
Staffie/Greyhound
Staffie/Lurcher
Staffie/Whippet
Staffie/Boxer
Staffie/Mastiff
Staffie/Bulldog
Staffie/American Bulldog
Staffie/English Bull Terrier
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Post by gillybrent on Sun Jun 02 2019, 09:02

Hey, I totally agree that BSL is crap! 

But it's not going anywhere & so education (for the police/Council wardens & the general public) must come first!

Whilst this draconian law remains law (and it will for many more years) we need to stop people from breeding crosses that are almost certainly going to be of 'type'. The only way is through education/information & proper training of the authorities.

I know you can quite hundreds of awful cases, but they will continue as long as pitbull 'type' dogs are bred! 

The law isn't going to change, despite so many knowledgeable organisations being against it (Dog's Trust, Blue Cross, RSPCA etc). Nobody in Parliament has the guts to face the backlash.

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Post by Cyril baby on Thu Jun 06 2019, 16:37

Not going anywhere is your opinion, why are you turning this thread into breeding when so many dogs are desperate to be cared for properly in police care. Don't believe me, take a look at this, many dogs are returned to there owner in bad condition, with sores on them, very thin etc. If you don't want to help these dogs stop trying to prevent others from helping them.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/09/dogs-tail-cut-off-in-police-care-after-he-was-accused-of-being-banned-breed-9478543/

I haven't been on for since Sunday because I had a dog with lymphoma coming to the end of her life, she was pts yesterday to stop her suffering.
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Post by gillybrent on Thu Jun 06 2019, 17:27

Oh, I'm so sorry. I know what it's like to have a dog diagnosed with Lymphoma.  Sad

I'm not 'turning the thread into a breeding one' , just putting forward ways to live with BSL which isn't going anywhere soon. 

Look, we're not going to see things the same, so let's leave it there.

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Post by Dogface Yesterday at 21:52

So in the OP the police entered private property occupied by a minor, provoked the puppy they found there, sprayed it with gas, set it on fire, kidnapped it, neglected it, lied about its behaviour and killed it. Yep, that sounds true to form.

Petition signed. If anybody came into my house and abused my dog I'd put them in the ground.
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