Advice please - Finding a new pup

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Advice please - Finding a new pup

Post by saintlysimon on Tue Aug 21 2018, 15:41

Hello there,

Thanks for having me - and if possible, I'd like some advice please.

My dog passed away in May, and we are finally getting to a point now where we would like to find another.

I would like a dog which is very similar to the dog we lost, I have posted pictures in the picture gallery section: RIP Baker.

She was certainly taller than the breed guidelines, at 19" to the shoulders. We met mom and dad when we bought her, mom was around 16" and dad also 19". There were no papers, but mom and dad were both extremely calm, not jumy or mouth. Great dogs.

When I asked her about the history of mom and dad she simply said 'dad was a leggy staffy'.

So, ten year on, I have been searching for a similar dog. But cant find a breeder who has this so called 'taller' staffy lineage for sale.

There are lots of X's in the shelter, which we dont want as we have two young children now and another on the way.

As for finding a dog from a breeder, were just not sure how to find a similar pooch.

Can anyone give me any advice?

I want to be careful, as we did go and see a litter in Birmingham - mom and dad were certainly taller, but the history of the dogs was unknown and I felt we may have problems down the line with this BSL stuff.

Thanks
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Re: Advice please - Finding a new pup

Post by gillybrent on Wed Aug 22 2018, 10:55

Personally, I always try to find a pup different from the last one. It saves comparing.

I doubt that you'll find any reputable breeder that breeds 'long-legged' (or 'Irish') Staffords. You will always be faced with the possibility of BSL rearing its ugly head.

The Stafford has a breed standard, and any breeder worth buying from will breed to that standard. There are a few inherited health problems (a couple very serious) that a good breeder will test for in the parents & so avoid transmitting them to the pups. The kind of breeder who just puts their pet dog to their pet bitch with no further thought than "5 or 6 pups will get me £3000" , are unlikely to use the DNA testing service to rule them out.

Please be very careful who you go to.

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Re: Advice please - Finding a new pup

Post by saintlysimon on Wed Aug 22 2018, 13:27

Thanks Gilly.

I am certainly confused, I thought there were just slightly taller staffs. But I guess not from what you say.

I absolutely dont want any worries regards BSL, so may be best to find a staff which fits the breed standard.

In the last 11 years the whole 'irish staff' thing seems to have taken off, I am amazed at the amount of discussion online around all of this. There is clearly no such thing as an irish staff, from what i have read, but then I have also read good information from SBT people whom talk about there being a taller acceptable staff, maybe 18/19".

This is what we'd like. But maybe its just not true.

Thanks
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Re: Advice please - Finding a new pup

Post by gillybrent on Wed Aug 22 2018, 14:01

If it's over 16",then it isn't acceptable as far as the breed standard is concerned, and a 19" Stafford certainly wouldn't be acceptable!

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Re: Advice please - Finding a new pup

Post by Nifty staffy on Wed Aug 22 2018, 20:51

Isn’t a 19” stafford really an American Staffordshire Terrier ??
Or maybe could Baker have been a cross between a staffie and an amstaff ? Would partially explain the legginess ...


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Re: Advice please - Finding a new pup

Post by gillybrent on Wed Aug 22 2018, 21:14

It's unlikely in the UK - don't forget that AmStaffs are a banned breed, including any crosses.

But crossbreeds are one thing, pure Staffords are another, even if they don't have papers.

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Re: Advice please - Finding a new pup

Post by Pabby1980 on Thu Aug 30 2018, 19:19

The term "staffy" is banded about like its going out of fashion. Its a bigger subject than can be had on this thread, but its false advertising at best, and outright fraud at worst. I'd say only 1 in 5 "staffies" I see are actually what their owners think they are....if that.

On the subject at hand, I'd 100% get a different dog in looks. You'll fall into the same habits if they are too similar then become stressed when the new dog inevitably doesn't behave the same as the old one, resulting in an anxious dog.

Start anew.

Just my 2p.

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Re: Advice please - Finding a new pup

Post by joshpills on Mon Sep 03 2018, 12:11

Pabby1980 wrote:The term "staffy" is banded about like its going out of fashion. Its a bigger subject than can be had on this thread, but its false advertising at best, and outright fraud at worst. I'd say only 1 in 5 "staffies" I see are actually what their owners think they are....if that.

On the subject at hand, I'd 100% get a different dog in looks. You'll fall into the same habits if they are too similar then become stressed when the new dog inevitably doesn't behave the same as the old one, resulting in an anxious dog.

Start anew.

Just my 2p.


this.

most staffies arent true staffies at all, and dare i say, the guy who made this post... you dog wasn't a full staffordshire bull terrier either.

its usually blatantly obvious, if the dog doesnt come with KC reg papers, its very very likely not a full staffie, and this is almost guaranteed if it falls well outside breed standard like 19 inches or "long legged".

i can look through 1000 staffie puppy adverts and tell you if the dog will have KC papers just from looking at the first pic of the pups or parents, you can tell pure staffies from crosses very easily, most if not all staffies sold without papers arent full staffies.

i know some people say KC registered papers arent needed, and thats true, if you want a dog just as a pet then its fine and doesnt matter what it is. but there is no reason for someone to not register their dogs if theyre full staffies, they'd make more money off registered pups anyway so theres no reason for dogs to not be registered. and if the parents of pups arent registered, the owner cannot claim the pups are staffies, because he simply doesnt know

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Re: Advice please - Finding a new pup

Post by Nifty staffy on Mon Sep 03 2018, 19:48

joshpills wrote:but there is no reason for someone to not register their dogs if theyre full staffies, they'd make more money off registered pups anyway so theres no reason for dogs to not be registered.

Yes and no. I don’t know how it works in your part of the world but over here, only KC registered dogs that have been confirmed can produce future KC registered pups. Otherwise the pups are “pure bred” but cannot be registered as KC.
Confirmation is presenting “adult” dogs in front of judges to ensure they meet breed standard.
However there are alot of confirmed dogs here with very incorrect ears (“labrador”), for example, and that’s not really promoting the breed standard either Sad


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Re: Advice please - Finding a new pup

Post by joshpills on Tue Sep 04 2018, 00:46

Nifty staffy wrote:
joshpills wrote:but there is no reason for someone to not register their dogs if theyre full staffies, they'd make more money off registered pups anyway so theres no reason for dogs to not be registered.

Yes and no. I don’t know how it works in your part of the world but over here, only KC registered dogs that have been confirmed can produce future KC registered pups. Otherwise the pups are “pure bred” but cannot be registered as KC.
Confirmation is presenting “adult” dogs in front of judges to ensure they meet breed standard.
However there are alot of confirmed dogs here with very incorrect ears (“labrador”), for example, and that’s not really promoting the breed standard either Sad

exactly, to be a pure bred staffie it must come from 2 pure bred staffie parents, and all pure breeds were KC registered usually, and there is no real reason to break the line of registering your dogs with the kc unless theyre not true staffies. without KC registered papers to prove the linage of your pup, there is no proof it is a pure bred staffie at all... even if it meets breed standard. im sure you could breed 2 separate breeds of dog and get a pup meeting the staffie standard but its not a staffie. 99.9% of none KC registered staffie pups are not registered because theyre not full staffies. breeders will claim theyre "full staffies just with no papers" but thats lies, or will claim mum is KC reg but dad isnt but hes still a full staffie they just didnt register him.. again usually lies.. the dad wont be a full staffie, he may resemble one but he'll be a cross breed some how.

nobody on earth can claim to know for a fact that their pups are full pure bred staffies without papers/pedigree and the ability to trace the stock the dog has come from .theres no proof. so to anyone on here who doesnt have a KC registered dog, you cant claim to have a staffie... staffie "type" yes, but staffordshire bull terrier.. no. the likelihood is your dog is a mix, and you can usually tell in the dog anyway, it'll usually fall outside breed standard one way or another ( height, weight etc).

get everyone on here to post a picture of their dog and tell us whether it is KC registered or not... you'll be able to see the difference between KC registered staffies and non kc registered "staffies".

not to say every kc reg dog is perfect, they arent

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Re: Advice please - Finding a new pup

Post by gillybrent on Tue Sep 04 2018, 17:09

Many members here have unregistered dogs. Some are mixes of one sort or another, some are the result of accidental mating between two stafford pets, some are from breeders who don't (for one reason or another) like the KC and what they stand for/do/don't do.

Really, sometimes it is actually very difficult to say whether or not a dog is a pure bred stafford - and as you say, even the registered ones aren't always perfect! There are unscrupulous breeders who register their pups but have lied about the parentage at some point in the past, ie the litters that include merle or black and tan.

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Re: Advice please - Finding a new pup

Post by joshpills on Tue Sep 04 2018, 20:28

gillybrent wrote:Many members here have unregistered dogs. Some are mixes of one sort or another, some are the result of accidental mating between two stafford pets, some are from breeders who don't (for one reason or another) like the KC and what they stand for/do/don't do.

Really, sometimes it is actually very difficult to say whether or not a dog is a pure bred stafford - and as you say, even the registered ones aren't always perfect! There are unscrupulous breeders who register their pups but have lied about the parentage at some point in the past, ie the litters that include merle or black and tan.


i dont think ive ever seen KC registered dogs that are merle or black and tan.

usually any dog not KC registered isnt a pure breed.

id like to see members post pictures of their none KC reg "staffords", so we can see what they look like.

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Re: Advice please - Finding a new pup

Post by Nifty staffy on Tue Sep 04 2018, 21:02

joshpills wrote:
exactly, to be a pure bred staffie it must come from 2 pure bred staffie parents, and all pure breeds were KC registered usually, and there is no real reason to break the line of registering your dogs with the kc unless theyre not true staffies. without KC registered papers to prove the linage of your pup, there is no proof it is a pure bred staffie at all... even if it meets breed standard.

Actually, what you say is not strictly true. Not here anyways.
My Nifty is a pure bred KC registered SBT but she cannot ever be confirmed as she was born with a deformed tail so on that point, she doesn’t meet breed standards. However, it’s very unlikely that her tail is a genetical problem.
If I had wanted to breed her to even the best stud in the world, the pups would be pure bred SBT but not KC registerable as Nifty cannot be confirmed (even if the stud is). Therefore I would have produced pure bred SBT but not KC registered.


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Re: Advice please - Finding a new pup

Post by gillybrent on Tue Sep 04 2018, 22:38

joshpills wrote:
gillybrent wrote:Many members here have unregistered dogs. Some are mixes of one sort or another, some are the result of accidental mating between two stafford pets, some are from breeders who don't (for one reason or another) like the KC and what they stand for/do/don't do.

Really, sometimes it is actually very difficult to say whether or not a dog is a pure bred stafford - and as you say, even the registered ones aren't always perfect! There are unscrupulous breeders who register their pups but have lied about the parentage at some point in the past, ie the litters that include merle or black and tan.


i dont think ive ever seen KC registered dogs that are merle or black and tan.

usually any dog not KC registered isnt a pure breed.

id like to see members post pictures of their none KC reg "staffords", so we can see what they look like.

I have recently seen adverts for merle SBT puppies. Not KC registered because the KC specifically do not accept the colour pattern. But that is a relatively new rule & there was a time when they were registered as 'non standard'.

https://www.freeads.co.uk/uk/buy-sell/pets/dogs/staffordshire-bull-terrier/35015640/ready-next-week-6-outstanding-quality-staffordshire-bull-terrier-pups/view#.W478RKLTVdY

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Re: Advice please - Finding a new pup

Post by joshpills on Wed Sep 05 2018, 04:05

[quote="gillybrent"]
joshpills wrote:
gillybrent wrote:Many members here have unregistered dogs. Some are mixes of one sort or another, some are the result of accidental mating between two stafford pets, some are from breeders who don't (for one reason or another) like the KC and what they stand for/do/don't do.

Really, sometimes it is actually very difficult to say whether or not a dog is a pure bred stafford - and as you say, even the registered ones aren't always perfect! There are unscrupulous breeders who register their pups but have lied about the parentage at some point in the past, ie the litters that include merle or black and tan.


i dont think ive ever seen KC registered dogs that are merle or black and tan.

usually any dog not KC registered isnt a pure breed.

id like to see members post pictures of their none KC reg "staffords", so we can see what they look like.

I have recently seen adverts for merle SBT puppies. Not KC registered because the KC specifically do not accept the colour pattern. But that is a relatively new rule & there was a time when they were registered as 'non standard'.



theyre not KC registered because theyre not full staffies. the dad isnt KC registered therefore pups cant be.

they pretend the dads parents are KC registered but he isnt.. again this will be a lie. theres no proof who the dads parents are if theres no pedigree.

and what a surprise, these non kc registered pups are merle, which is not a staffordshire bull terrier colour... because theyre not pure bred staffies, theyre crosses.

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Re: Advice please - Finding a new pup

Post by gillybrent on Wed Sep 05 2018, 09:54

joshpills wrote:
and what a surprise, these non kc registered pups are merle, which is not a staffordshire bull terrier colour... because theyre not pure bred staffies, theyre crosses.
[/quote]

You miss the point again. At one time (until about 10 years or so ago), the KC would register merles, but would state 'Non Standard Colour'. So, there are KC registered dogs that carry the merle gene. Maybe there were liars years ago who passed off a cross breeding as a registered breeding (which still goes on, believe me!), but the fact remains that there ARE registered dogs with the merle gene.

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Re: Advice please - Finding a new pup

Post by joshpills on Wed Sep 05 2018, 10:10

gillybrent wrote:
joshpills wrote:
and what a surprise, these non kc registered pups are merle, which is not a staffordshire bull terrier colour... because theyre not pure bred staffies, theyre crosses.

You miss the point again. At one time (until about 10 years or so ago), the KC would register merles, but would state 'Non Standard Colour'. So, there are KC registered dogs that carry the merle gene. Maybe there were liars years ago who passed off a cross breeding as a registered breeding (which still goes on, believe me!), but the fact remains that there ARE registered dogs with the merle gene. [/quote]

i wasn't aware of any KC reg dogs having being merle. ive never seen or heard of it. not saying youre wrong just saying i personally wasn't aware that happened.

but like you say, that definitely will have involved liars who will have pretended the parents of the dog were not who they actually are.

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Re: Advice please - Finding a new pup

Post by gillybrent on Wed Sep 05 2018, 11:35

joshpills wrote:

but like you say, that definitely will have involved liars who will have pretended the parents of the dog were not who they actually are.

But they were still registered as pedigree (pure) dogs.

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