Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

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Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by olwen669 on Wed Jan 24 2018, 15:04

Hi, i am delighted to be a grannie of 6 beautiful and cheeky 3week old STB pups (all boys) but i am also confused as there's 1 blue pup in the mix!!
Both parents are black with white.
They are KC registered so have been looking at the bloodlines as someone mentioned Valglo and both have Valglo in the 5 generations with 16 champions between both parents.
Someone also said if both parents are black its the pit bull coming through?
Then they said something about a blue with black nails, our pup has 11 black nails? Apparently if both parents are blue then pups nails are white.
As you can probably guess by my ramblings I am confused, I am extremely curious as to
how there's one blue pup and his 5 siblings are black with white, and his parents are black with white.
Thank you in advance
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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by Nifty staffy on Wed Jan 24 2018, 18:28

The gene carrying the blue colour is a simple recessive gene that affects the coat colour and nothing more. The actual quality of a litter is dependant on the quality of the parents but both must carry blue to produce blue puppies. That explains where your blue pup comes from.

As to the black toenail thing, the opinion of some is that quality blue Staffords have black noses, medium to dark brown eyes and black toenails. They add that an incorrect selection of parents may result in pups with weak pigment and light eyes.

Regarding the pitbull coming through, I think they are confusing this with the throwback to the Blue Pauls which were believed to be responsible for the blue gene in staffies. It is a now extinct variety of the bull terrier but they were very intelligent and used for fighting, hence the pitbull association.

I just think you should be happy to have 6 healthy pups with one a little different due to genetics Smile


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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by -Ian- on Wed Jan 24 2018, 18:37

I think the post above answers your questions perfectly, I also think you've been lucky that one has had the throw back to blue Smile


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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by gillybrent on Wed Jan 24 2018, 18:51

It just means that both parents carry one recessive blue gene. The blue pup's the only one that has the recessive gene from both parents, hence the colour.

It's nothing to do with pit bulls (which were developed separately from Staffords) and is simply a matter of genetics. Many black breeds get blues occasionally.

Blue dogs cannot have black noses as the gene concerned turns ALL black to either blue or charcoal to light grey. Even black looking nails will actually be very dark grey.

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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by olwen669 on Wed Jan 24 2018, 19:04

Thank you for the very informative reply, I will now be able to correct the people that told me the original info Wink

We consider ourselves very fortunate that we have 6 healthy, bouncing, cheeky, beautiful staffy pups, no matter what colour they are.


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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by gillybrent on Wed Jan 24 2018, 19:37

olwen669 wrote:
We consider ourselves very fortunate that we have 6 healthy, bouncing, cheeky, beautiful staffy pups, no matter what colour they are.


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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by Larry on Wed Jan 24 2018, 22:09

Our pup was the only blue and only boy in the litter. His dad was blue though and his mother was red.
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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by Larry on Wed Jan 24 2018, 22:14

Just to add, how do you determine if black is black enough in regards to the nose and toenails?

I've heard this before, but how does one decide if black is black enough?

It makes no odds to me as Neeko isn't going anywhere, just be interesting to know.
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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by Nifty staffy on Thu Jan 25 2018, 05:16

As gillybrent said, technically it will never be black but shades of grey.
I think the idea is to say the darker (and closest to resembling black as possible) the better.

The problem is that over here, for example, you find alot of light coloured blues with very light eyes, blue or amber. Genetically speaking, these individuals have alot (too much) of the dilute gene. They are often bred through 2 blue parents and worse still, repeating this practice over several generations. This is typical breeding for colour (and money) only Sad


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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by olwen669 on Thu Jan 25 2018, 05:36

So the bloke that told me about black nails being a sign of 'for want of a better word' a purer staff was in fact correct. At the time we chatted he was walking a blue staff, which he pointed out had all pale/white nails because both her parents were blue staffs.

Purely for sake of curiosity I then checked my blue pups nails and he has 11 black nails.

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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by Nifty staffy on Thu Jan 25 2018, 06:20

It’s not really a question of purer as it’s a question of genes that give colour. Just like you cannot say that your black pups are purer than the blue one as they are all out of the same parents !
I would prefer to think about a better balance genetically speaking - not too much of a “good thing” (the recessive gene giving the possibility of specific colour) that becomes problematic pushed to the extreme (potential increased health problems, for example)


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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by olwen669 on Thu Jan 25 2018, 07:35

I am new to all this, especially using forums, rearing puppies & the genes of blue SBT's Wink buts thats why I said 'for want of a better word' before saying 'purer' I knew it was the wrong word but then we learn something new everyday.
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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by Nifty staffy on Thu Jan 25 2018, 08:49

Well you could say purer in terms of dominant genes Smile


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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by gillybrent on Thu Jan 25 2018, 17:22

Yes, genes don't care about the 'purity' of a breed, just which gene is matched to another - it's the luck of the draw.

You can have a dog & bitch (not blue) that both carry the blue gene & all their pup's could be non-blue. Or, all blue - just depends how the genes mix.

Black claws are certainly not a sign of a pure bred pedigree dog! You could mate a black brindle Stafford with a black labrador & the pups would likely have black claws. Doesn't make them 'purer'.

Genetics is a complicated science with many different mixes & matches. Even those who are genetically aware will get things wrong.


Last edited by gillybrent on Sat Jan 27 2018, 08:42; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by lexii on Fri Jan 26 2018, 22:55

As said, the only thing that matters is that all pups are happy and healthy, and get good homes. I dunno your situation but i would want to keep that blue one for myself, cause he is awesome!
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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by olwen669 on Sun Jun 17 2018, 03:09

Soz for delay just wanted to say thanks for all the info, some pics of pups at their Forever Homes


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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by gillybrent on Sun Jun 17 2018, 08:49

Beautiful!

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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by buddy boy on Sun Jul 01 2018, 20:33

if there are no blues which is only a washed out brindle anyway in the closest relatives then you may well have to trace the line back several generations and then it maybe not so direct it could be say that the GGGM sire was a blue but she was not blue herself, as for the pitbull yes our breeds did start out together the sbt originally came from a pit bull type dog and then of course they went over to the USA where their pits do not look that different to SBT all though they have SBT and amstaff over there as well as pits
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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by gillybrent on Mon Jul 02 2018, 08:15

buddy boy wrote:as for the pitbull yes our breeds did start out together the sbt originally came from a pit bull type dog and then of course they went over to the USA where their pits do not look that different to SBT all though they have SBT and amstaff over there as well as pits

Not really. The Stafford came about from crosses between the old fashioned Bulldog and several types of game Terriers (they were then called bull & terriers) . The pitbull came from dogs taken to the USA (the old Bull & Terriers) and crossed with local dogs.

The pitbull & the AmStaff are the same breed, but the AmStaff is recognised by the AKC and is more refined/truer to type.

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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by joshpills on Tue Sep 04 2018, 01:06

blue pups that come from parents that weren't blue are the healthiest. blue on blue matings create many potential health problems in dogs.

however im concerned that someone with such little knowledge in breeding and dog genetics is breeding at all? did you health test your dogs? do you know the dogs DNA and linage? do you know how interbred the dogs are? whether the 2 parents DNA compliment eachother to produce good offspring?

theres more to breeding than just mating 2 dogs, only very knowledgable people should breed.

out of curiosity, why did you breed? for money?

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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by olwen669 on Tue Sep 04 2018, 13:55

It was an accidental pregnancy, to put your mind at ease Joshpills i can assure you that someone like me with 'such little knowledge in breeding and dog genetics' wouldn't dare to ever consider breeding again, I will leave it those who are more knowledgeable.
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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by gillybrent on Tue Sep 04 2018, 16:53

joshpills wrote:blue pups that come from parents that weren't blue are the healthiest. blue on blue matings create many potential health problems in dogs.

however im concerned that someone with such little knowledge in breeding and dog genetics is breeding at all? did you health test your dogs? do you know the dogs DNA and linage? do you know how interbred the dogs are? whether the 2 parents DNA compliment eachother to produce good offspring?

theres more to breeding than just mating 2 dogs, only very knowledgable people should breed.

out of curiosity, why did you breed? for money?

I'm sure that you meant well, and didn't mean that post to sound quite as rude as it did, especially the last sentence?

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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by joshpills on Tue Sep 04 2018, 20:42

gillybrent wrote:
joshpills wrote:blue pups that come from parents that weren't blue are the healthiest. blue on blue matings create many potential health problems in dogs.

however im concerned that someone with such little knowledge in breeding and dog genetics is breeding at all? did you health test your dogs? do you know the dogs DNA and linage? do you know how interbred the dogs are? whether the 2 parents DNA compliment eachother to produce good offspring?

theres more to breeding than just mating 2 dogs, only very knowledgable people should breed.

out of curiosity, why did you breed? for money?

I'm sure that you meant well, and didn't mean that post to sound quite as rude as it did, especially the last sentence?


didnt mean it as rude, just meant it as it was. there are thousands of unwanted staffies in kennels waiting to be killed. and there are many many many unhealthy dogs resulting from poor breeding from people who breed any old dog to any old dog, or breed for money.

i was just curious why the person in question was breeding when they knew so little, and wondered if money was the reason.

i understand accidents can happen Smile but i do think the problem of overpopulation of dogs and staffies in particular means people need to be much more careful about "accidental" breedings. if you own 2 unneutered dogs of the opposite sex and keep them together its not really an "accident" that they bred as you clearly weren't trying to prevent it. what if the pups came out very unhealthy because the dogs were too closely related in pedigree or weren't health checked for faults, or if these pups end up in shelters along with thousands of others.

many people are appalled about the overbreeding of staffords yet as soon as someone unnecessarily breeds with very little knowledge and is asking about blue pups, then its rude to criticise, and the excuse of "it was an accident" is enough.

i dont mean to come off as rude Smile i know accidents can happen, i just hope all the pups are healthy and happy and live long happy lives and find forever loving owners Smile but try be more careful and not have any "accidents" in the future.

how much are you selling the pups for?


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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by gillybrent on Tue Sep 04 2018, 22:30

All the pups (as far as I know) are now in their forever homes. The price (or lack of it) is neither material nor your business. Wink

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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by joshpills on Wed Sep 05 2018, 04:01

gillybrent wrote:All the pups (as far as I know) are now in their forever homes. The price (or lack of it) is neither material nor your business. Wink

might have been thinking of buying one? always wanted a blue but dont like blue on blue matings and most blue pups you see today are from them.

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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by gillybrent on Wed Sep 05 2018, 09:55

joshpills wrote:
gillybrent wrote:All the pups (as far as I know) are now in their forever homes. The price (or lack of it) is neither material nor your business. Wink

might have been thinking of buying one? always wanted a blue but dont like blue on blue matings and most blue pups you see today are from them.

But you weren't, were you? Wink

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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

Post by joshpills on Wed Sep 05 2018, 10:06

gillybrent wrote:
joshpills wrote:
gillybrent wrote:All the pups (as far as I know) are now in their forever homes. The price (or lack of it) is neither material nor your business. Wink

might have been thinking of buying one? always wanted a blue but dont like blue on blue matings and most blue pups you see today are from them.

But you weren't, were you? Wink

funnily enough it did cross my mind.

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Re: Recently had a litter with one Blue pup and rest are Black pups, is this normal?

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