Help and advise please!!!

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Help and advise please!!!

Post by Sashy Bob on Wed Sep 20 2017, 11:47

New to this and don't know if I'm posting on the right chat, I've paid a deposit on a puppy that hadn't been born yet, took the add as reliable and honest but had a couple of funny whatsapp of the breeder and I'm now having serious doubts whether I've been scammed, HELP! I don't want to contact her outright and p her off but her behaviour and what she's saying is very worrying, how do I know the parents of the pup are really who she says they Are? Any ideas?

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by LizP on Wed Sep 20 2017, 12:22

Hi,

First of all, where are you? In the UK? If so, the Citizens Advice might be the best place to start.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/get-more-help/if-you-need-more-help-about-a-consumer-issue/

I have to say it doesn't sound great. I doubt if there are many/any good breeders would take a deposit on an unborn puppy - after all, they would have no idea that all the pups from a bitch would be born alive and well.

I would arm myself with as much information about your rights, depending on how you made the agreement and how you paid, then contact the lady and say you're sorry to bother her but you're getting very excited, can you come and meet the pups and pick yours or something like that. No good breeder would mind you meeting the puppies.

Other than actually seeing the mum with the pups, and seeing that they are her pups (i.e. she's feeding them), you can't be sure I'm afraid. Scammers will make sure you can't find out.


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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Sashy Bob on Wed Sep 20 2017, 12:27

She said the order book was open and couldn't guarantee there would be any left if I left it til they were born, she said she'd let me know when they were born, didn't hear anything g so messaged her and she said no but looked like it would be soon, next day she messaged and said she'd had the pups and they were a week old! Just don't know how to approach it, thanks for your reply though, I'm feeling worse by the day about it all

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by LizP on Wed Sep 20 2017, 13:17

Do you mind if I ask how much you've paid her already?


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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Sashy Bob on Wed Sep 20 2017, 15:31

I've paid £250 balance owing of 1110, but she mentioned in her last message POA which hadn't been mentioned in the advert or messages previously, just feel there's something wrong going on

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Larry on Wed Sep 20 2017, 15:41

I know it doesn't help your situation, but i wouldn't of paid anything until I saw the pup I was buying and the parents.

Hope you get sorted
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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Paris1990 on Wed Sep 20 2017, 15:45

I assume you get papers for that price? And are the pups blue? Is the advert still online?
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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Sashy Bob on Wed Sep 20 2017, 15:50

The advert states micro chipped, papers, vaccinations etc, all looks great, until I discovered an old advert if someone else's today and it's word for word of the one I've got, can't say too much about it all on here in case she's a member but I have the new advert, we paid a deposit also because we live 4 hrs away from them

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by LizP on Wed Sep 20 2017, 17:06

If she's a member on here you're probably ok, but it's is sounding very fishy Sad

I would contact Citizen's Advice and see what they say. I don't know what the law is, whether a dog is like any other item that you purchase that you're allowed to change your mind or something.


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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Sashy Bob on Wed Sep 20 2017, 17:08

Yes it's well dodgy, I'll just have to see what happens, cross with myself after taking 3 years to finally go for it and this happens, thanks anyway

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by gillybrent on Wed Sep 20 2017, 17:46

to be honest? I'd back away & sue them for the return of your deposit. No GOOD breeder will charge more than £800 for a pup.

to say it sounds 'fishy' is an understatement! No good breeder takes a deposit for a pup that hasn't been born.

i hate to say it, but they're con artists, and as such are NOT members if this forum!

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Sashy Bob on Wed Sep 20 2017, 17:53

I do feel like just telling her to stick it, it'd cost me more than the deposit to get solicitors letter etc, I've got her bank details and mobile number, might just report her for fraud, I've got no address etc, and not sure if that's her real name, to be fair most of the blue pups I looked at were around that price, but she's moved the goal posts now and said a solid blue will be more when there was no mention at all when I paid deposit, she told me I could have the pick of the litter, she said she couldn't handle the pups for three weeks to check the colouring yet there's pics on the advert of the pups getting handled, should I confront her or leave it til she contact me?

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by gillybrent on Wed Sep 20 2017, 18:16

oh, lord, she's a con artist! There's no reason for a blue pup to cost so much!

please, please don't go ahead.

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Sashy Bob on Wed Sep 20 2017, 18:30

How can I get my deposit back?

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by -Ian- on Wed Sep 20 2017, 18:47

Sorry to say this really doesn't sound good at all. Two things stick out straight away, the price and changing goal posts and the words "solid blue". Not sure how a solid blue differs from a blue, they are just blue and even if there is little or no other colours when born doesn't mean that won't change in the months coming.

I would try getting your deposit back and walk away, you smell a rat so follow your instincts and walk away, if the dogs are worth that much money and she's a reputable breeder she'll happily give you the money back and sell the pup to someone else.

Have a chat with citizens advice as a starting point


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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Nifty staffy on Wed Sep 20 2017, 19:01

Hello and just to give you moral support too.
Definitely create your case file with all contact : advert, all exchanges that are written/typed, proof of deposit (hopefully not cash in hand), any sales receipt/contract.
Take the lot to citizens advice and go from there.

So sorry that your 3 year project has taken this turn but I'm confident that you WILL be adopted by a staffy in the end Smile
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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Sashy Bob on Wed Sep 20 2017, 19:05

Thank you Ian, and nifty stuffy, so upset feel like crying, was looking forward to finally having a beautiful staffie in our lives, trying to find the owner of the stud dog at the moment to see if it is indeed the sire as she has stated, if not I have a valid reason to ask for my deposit back, this has caused no end of stress and arguments here when it should be a happy time, so cross with her and myself, thanks everyone x

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Paris1990 on Wed Sep 20 2017, 19:43

Fingers crossed you get sorted! And don't back down x
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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Sashy Bob on Wed Sep 20 2017, 19:50

Hope it's sorted too, pretty sick about it all x

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by gillybrent on Wed Sep 20 2017, 20:13

-Ian- wrote:. Not sure how a solid blue differs from a blue, they are just blue and even if there is little or no other colours when born doesn't mean that won't change in the months coming.

Basically, to guarantee a 'solid blue' you have to mate a deep blue to a deep blue - not a good idea, genetically. A blue mated to a brindle or red etc is likely to result in blue or fawn brindles.

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Sashy Bob on Wed Sep 20 2017, 23:26

Wanted to put price to £1800 for solid, told her she's taking the piss, refused to give my deposit back, been screwed over big time, any big burly men fancy a road trip with me

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Nifty staffy on Thu Sep 21 2017, 05:44

Well at least you have confirmation of your gut feeling. Sad
You've only potentially lost the deposit, not the whole sum so now it's up to you to see if/how you proceed.

If you have written proof somewhere of the initial £1360 price tag and reservation before birth privilege, I'd at least create a few problems for her. If citizens advice can't help, is she a registered breeder ? If so, maybe trading standards could help ?
You can also contact kennel club and inform them of the scam, especially if she's "selling with papers". Use her mobile number to try to track her down via phone company ? Have a chat with your bank regarding deposit (I presume you paid by bank transfer ?) Can the police help, maybe at least with a house call ?
Any info regarding the potential stud dog ? Maybe owner knows/ knows of this person ? Not sure any reputable stud owner would want to be linked to such a scam either.
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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Nifty staffy on Thu Sep 21 2017, 05:46

Oh, and it might have been a possibility to say still interested in pup but must see in person before considering hefty price tag - could have obtained address to then pay visit.
These scam artists are often less cocky when met face to face.

If still possible, play her along and sooner or later, she will slip up and leak information like address or the such Wink

I know things are different from country to country but I drove over 2 hours to see a pup without being able to interact or touch at all. Gave double your deposit and was told not possible to touch pup until fetching at 8 weeks. That's how this breeder works, she limits all contact to avoid contamination of pups but posts photos and videos every week. Does a huge amount of work in terms of showing the pups lots of different things, not just keeping them in a box with an hour's free time for visits. Has 3 generations on site so you can meet all of the extended family. Sent photos by MMS and was always available by phone or e-mail.


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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Jnestie84 on Thu Sep 21 2017, 07:32

I know it's easy for me to say but I would walk away and put it down to bad experience. Instead I would look for another puppy with the money you have put aside. Really sorry about the position you are in.


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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by LizP on Thu Sep 21 2017, 08:50

I'm with James, I would now walk away as well. But I would still contact Citizens Advice and see if there is anything that can be done a) to get your deposit back and b) to stop these people doing it again, and again, and again...

Then find yourself a lovely dog either from a reputable breeder or from a rescue. There are some lovely, lovely staffs in rescue, and contrary to popular believe they don't all have buckets of issues.

Could I also suggest you don't get hung up on colour? I know blue staffies are very pretty but there are thing about their breeding and popularity that make me uncomfortable - as you've found out only too well far too many people are trying to cash in on a fashion and are breeding dogs for money, not because they are healthy. At the end of the day, coat colour doesn't affect character and whether a dog is blue, white, brindle, black, red... they are all the same wonderful dog underneath.



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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Mistys Mum on Thu Sep 21 2017, 09:21

So sorry to hear this. Breeders make such a big deal about blues being rare etc but I heard ( i think on crufts) the statistics that blues are now the most common colour being bred. Also I agree with the above comments regarding breeding blue on blue, people just give no care to the health of the pups. It's just a money making scam. I also agree with looking at rescues, sadly they do have a lot of Staffies and also Staffy pups in.

Do let us know how you get on.


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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by gillybrent on Thu Sep 21 2017, 11:04

if you have a deposit receipt and something in writing (texts or emails areokay) to say the price is £1350, then by putting the price up she has broken the contract.

if she won't return your deposit then you can sue through the small claims court). You'll need her name & address, though.

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Sashy Bob on Sat Sep 23 2017, 14:26

Hi everyone, just looked at all your messages, thank you, had to give my self a break from it all for a couple of days I was getting obsessed, I haven't got her address but I've managed to find out where she works , she is refusing point blank to give deposit back even though I've pointed out her lies and I've lost confidence, found out she's sold, jack Russell and spaniels too, which is a further blow!!! Feel really foolish for get I g swept away without doing proper research, but it's done now, had a bit of a spat with her via whatsapp and she was going to phone me yesterday, no phone call, just going to let things lie for the time being but I'm thinking I'll probably just have to put it down to experience and walk away without deposit, might give the police a ring and see if anything can be done, citizens advise first though, thank you all for your responses, I'm so grateful x

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by LizP on Sat Sep 23 2017, 15:10

I'm sorry your worst fears are confirmed but at least now you know.

Please, if you have the strength, do follow it up with CA or the police. She will go on cheating people until she's stopped and you can help stop her.

Good luck!


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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Sashy Bob on Sat Sep 23 2017, 17:28

Hi Liz, I'll get in touch with citizens advice Monday and make enquires with police, can't stop thinking about those little puppies, she won't care who she sells them to, I do want her stopped and I'll try my hardest, I'll update on here if I get anywhere , thanks

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Nifty staffy on Sat Sep 23 2017, 18:15

Good luck, for ending this very unpleasant experience but also for nurturing your staffy acquisition Smile
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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Sashy Bob on Sat Sep 23 2017, 18:21

Was so looking forward to getting our staffy, after a long time thinking whether it would be fair on the dog, I'm out 3 days, this situation has caused nothing but rows between us now not sure if we'll get one now or not, been very off putting, so sad was looking forward to staffy cuddles

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by LizP on Sat Sep 23 2017, 18:26

Sashy Bob wrote: can't stop thinking about those little puppies, she won't care who she sells them to,

She won't care because they are, I'll bet you anything, not her puppies and she's not got anything to do with them at the moment. My guess is she's a puppy farm outlet, possible a farm outside the UK even, and she's just pretending they're hers. The fact that she's also sold dogs of other breeds makes that a near dead cert. Scum.

As for getting a staffie in the future, to be honest they're not always the best breed if you're going to be out. They are so people orientated, which makes them prone to separation anxiety. You might be better taking a breather (in any case!) and then considering taking an older dog from a rescue centre, one that could cope with being left.


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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Nifty staffy on Sat Sep 23 2017, 18:27

Not sure anyone appreciates being conned so I'm thinking the rows are a "normal" reaction between you.

As you've already been preparing yourself for 3years (if I remember correctly), and were on the point of finalizing your plans, would be a real shame to let this con artist ruin all your dreams. Don't give her that power!
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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Sashy Bob on Sat Sep 23 2017, 23:34

Had a thought of going ahead as planned, bring the pup and papers home and getting everything checked properly, any irregularlaties like I think there will be I will take her to small claims court and name and shame her wherever I can and report her to wherever she's advertising on, that way I'll get her address etc, I think the KC papers are not going to be gen, KC should be able to help me with this? Yes three years we've been think long and hard, coming close and backing off, thinking it wouldn't be fair on the dog , but we've got people who've offered to help here and there now, ruined everything for us now, they should be due for viewing in the next couple of weeks and we were supposedly getting first pick, I keep swaying from telling her to stick the deposit then thinking of going through with it then go all guns blazing to shut her down , I was quiet restrained in my words with her lol, might need the messages for evidence so didn't want to come across like a complete lunatic,

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by LizP on Sun Sep 24 2017, 07:45

I really wouldn't, for 2 reasons. Firstly, if this is, as suspected, a puppy farm, you have no way of knowing that you will have a healthy puppy. There are countelss tales of puppy farm pups having serious illnesses and defects, some not even lasting a week in their new homes.

The second reason is that every £ you pay her funds her next scam, her next shipment of pups to screw someone else with.

I know your emotions are heavily invested in this pup but please decide with your head. The disappointment may be great but the potential
for it to get even worse is significant.

By the way, another avenue to report her is the RSPCA. Given I'm involved with them I should have thought before! They are interested in reports of puppy farm sales

https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets/dogs/puppy/sales


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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Sashy Bob on Sun Sep 24 2017, 09:58

Had thought of rspca too Liz, I'll report her to every organisation going, need her address first though? What I though of doing was as above and coming straight home and getting it to a vet to be checked thouroughly, checking papers with kennel club etc, I feel at the moment I cant. go reporting her to these organisations as I haven't been to her premesis, seem the conditions etc and proved the papers are fraudulent, I want to be more armed to do this and the I only way is to actually go there? All I've got at the moment is her pointless lies about when they were born etc and her trying to put the price on me, I need more to shut her down

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by LizP on Sun Sep 24 2017, 13:45

I'd let others play detective, don't get mixed up. There are some nasty people out there, you don't want to take any needless risks.


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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Sashy Bob on Sun Sep 24 2017, 14:36

Ye I know, bit worried about going all the way there and things turn nasty, I just don't think anyone will do anything about this, I can report her to every organisation going but will they do anything? Everyone's overstretched these days resource wise and nothing ever seems to be done, I just feel if I want this woman punished for what she's doing is to do it myself, I spent a coup,e of hours a few years back catching a feral cat with 6 kittens, brought them in, fed them got the mother neutered and the rspca didn't want to know, didn't have the resources to take them, I found home for them all but was disappointed in the rspca.

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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by LizP on Sun Sep 24 2017, 15:14

I know the RSPCA can be seen as not helping but sadly they can't do everything. I'm very involved with an RSPCA affiliated rescue centre so know a bit about how it works. We are usually swamped with animals that are real cruelty cases (you wouldn't believe some of the things we get, animals that have been stabbed, sexually abused, starved, etc...), from 'hoarder' homes, strays with nowhere else to go, etc. We do take animals from the public in exceptional cases - we have a little old dog whose owner has cancer, for example - but we can't help them all. Feral cats are very hard to rehome, it's super stressful for them to be in a cattery, and the best thing is often to neuter and release. You'd already (amazingly!) done that so there wasn't much else for the RSPCA to do.

They do, though, persue major perpetrators of cruelty and animal abuse and it is really worth talking to them first. They will at least be able to advise you on what they can do and what you should do.

Taking the puppy won't make any difference to whether you get someone to help or not. They will either have the resources and ability to follow it up or they won't.



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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Nifty staffy on Sun Sep 24 2017, 18:09

Sashy Bob, I think what Liz is trying to say is that although your intentions are good, there are other organizations that should maybe confront this lady instead of you directly. By going through with the transaction, you may well end up with a very overpriced pup with very bad health (puppy farm speciality). Plus you are contributing to what you are fighting against, so it’s a vicious circle.
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Re: Help and advise please!!!

Post by Sashy Bob on Mon Sep 25 2017, 11:40

Thank you both, I know what you're saying is right, I've just lost a lot of faith in everything at the moment, I'll post an update but it's looking like I'm just going to write it off to a bad experience and hopefully, learn from it!! Thank you

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