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Post by Guest on Sat Nov 02 2013, 17:48

This is not a blue-bashing thread!

Just heard that the last quarter's KC registrations were 62% blue. I wonder when they'll stop advertising them as 'rare'!

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Post by Guest on Sat Nov 02 2013, 17:57

It's been like that for a while. The thing that bothers me (I'm not blue bashing either) is that BYBs and KC breeders are so intent on the colour that they don't concentrate on breed standard biggrin

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Post by Guest on Sat Nov 02 2013, 18:00

That's true, but even so, it's worrying that the colour is so popular that it's pushing out the old, traditional colours.

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Post by Guest on Sat Nov 02 2013, 18:04

I know what you mean Caryll. It used to be black and brindle in rescues now it is blues. I like the liver colour when it crops up with the light nose ( I know it isn't an accepted KC colour) but it looks cute biggrin

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Post by Guest on Sat Nov 02 2013, 18:05

What annoys me is that, the moment anybody mentions something that could even remotely criticise blues, you'll get at least one person accusing them of 'blue bashing'. The word 'delusional' springs to mind.

But no, definitely not rare at this stage! Smile

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Post by Guest on Sat Nov 02 2013, 18:08

The thing that I find surprising ( and again not Blue Bashing ) why are the Blue entries for shows extremely rare and when not rare tend not to do so well . I know some fantastic looking Blues but although widely accepted by Joe Public still not so well received in the show ring

Quite bizarre for a dog taking 62% of the share

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Post by Guest on Sat Nov 02 2013, 18:10

Dave, I think a lot of it is because so many blues are bred solely for colour, rather than overall conformity to the breed standard, so a lot of them aren't show quality as such.

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Post by Guest on Sat Nov 02 2013, 18:11

They are popular. I had blue cats before I got Lily and I loved the colour. The prices charged never fail to shock me. Lily although a beauty is not breed standard and she was dearer than Lola who according to a judge had a great head only prob was she carried her tail a bit high biggrin

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Post by Guest on Sat Nov 02 2013, 18:16

Chiara wrote:It's been like that for a while. The thing that bothers me (I'm not blue bashing either) is that BYBs and KC breeders are so intent on the colour that they don't concentrate on breed standard biggrin
I don't have anything more to say other than that! lol

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Post by Guest on Sat Nov 02 2013, 18:19

This topic should have been locked before Caryll's fingers ever hit the keyboard

@ 62% of the vote then obviously a fair few ready to disagree , sure to be a good live post

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Post by Guest on Sat Nov 02 2013, 18:27

Topic should be fine, as long as people don't get offensive and childish over it, instead of just having a friendly, sensible debate Tongues

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Post by Guest on Sat Nov 02 2013, 19:01

Dave wrote:The thing that I find surprising ( and again not Blue Bashing ) why are the Blue entries for shows extremely rare and when not rare tend not to do so well . I know some fantastic looking Blues but although widely accepted by Joe Public still not so well received in the show ring

Quite bizarre for a dog taking 62% of the share
The main problem, Dave, is lack of pigment. Don't forget that the standard calls for a black nose & as blues are a dilute of black, they can't actually have a black nose.

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Post by Hakuna on Sat Nov 02 2013, 19:19

Admittedly my coat colour preferences have always been blacks, blue and pieds ... I do like blue staffords, I think some are very elegant looking, but by no means are they rare and it does puzzle me that there are folk still stating that blue is a rare colour and demanding daft prices for pups.

Rare my backside .... show me a nice tiger brindle or deep rich red .... far more rare than any blues out there!

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Post by Hakuna on Sat Nov 02 2013, 19:30

Dave wrote:The thing that I find surprising ( and again not Blue Bashing ) why are the Blue entries for shows extremely rare and when not rare tend not to do so well . I know some fantastic looking Blues but although widely accepted by Joe Public still not so well received in the show ring

Quite bizarre for a dog taking 62% of the share
Dave, some blues have done well in the show ring particularly in Europe, but the thing is many people couldn't give a toss about showing in general ... dog show entries are on the decline and many think it will be a thing of the past in the years to come.

The other thing is that many blues have poor confirmation and sadly people just use them as a cash cow with no real aim as to evaluating their breeding stock .... basically breeders will just throw two dogs together just because they are blue.

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Post by Guest on Sat Nov 02 2013, 19:47

Paul

I've just started showing as someone commented on my boy so we thought lets give him a go ( got to be in it to win it ) . Apparently the stafford population was the biggest contributor to the show world at one timer . I think inside of KC rules then the whole Blue thing has to be the biggest topic of all time

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Post by Hakuna on Sat Nov 02 2013, 20:04

Dave wrote:Paul

I've just started showing as someone commented on my boy so we thought lets give him a go ( got to be in it to win it ) . Apparently the stafford population was the biggest contributor to the show world at one timer . I think inside of KC rules then the whole Blue thing has to be the biggest topic of all time
Your dogs are cracking Dave, i'm glad you're doing well with your boy.

My parents showed their dogs back in the 90s and I have a few pals who are involved in showing theirs. My girl Minnie is bred down from some of the most successful staffords that have hit the show scene, but personally I feel that the original purpose of showing was to evaluate the best examples and breeding stock. However these days the shows are often a political mess with no real aim towards that original purpose. The crufts scandal this year finalised my views on showing, albeit,  I don't knock anyone who exhibits their dogs, just personally not my cup of tea.

Blues will always be a touchy topic with some - some people love them, others hate the way the breed is going. Personally I like the coat colour, but as said it has to be coupled with the correct confirmation.

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Post by Guest on Sat Nov 02 2013, 20:45

Hakuna wrote:Admittedly my coat colour preferences have always been blacks, blue and pieds ... I do like blue staffords, I think some are very elegant looking, but by no means are they rare and it does puzzle me that there are folk still stating that blue is a rare colour and demanding daft prices for pups.

Rare my backside .... show me a nice tiger brindle or deep rich red .... far more rare than any blues out there!

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Paul
Hakuna wrote:

The other thing is that many blues have poor confirmation and sadly people just use them as a cash cow with no real aim as to evaluating their breeding stock .... basically breeders will just throw two dogs together just because they are blue.

Atb,
Paul
Couldn't agree more with both of these points!

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Post by Guest on Sat Nov 02 2013, 21:05

Hear, hear! Double agree

also "the original purpose of showing was to evaluate the best examples and breeding stock." thumbs up 

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Post by Gazagem on Sun Nov 03 2013, 08:57

Having 2 blues myself I do love the colour but I'm with you guys they are deffinately not rare and some of the staffies I see are odd shapes. One I have seen owner says kc reg but it's tall and the head shape is not what I would call staffy shape.
Skye is to tall for showing being 17inch but her coat colour is a darker blue than most I see
Buster is 14inch and is well proportioned and I would love to show him but other problems have stopped this
I realy can't understand why they are going for £1000 pounds a pup still I certainly didnt pay that for either of mine
I would love a red staffie myself as our last staff was a beautiful red with a wonderful temperament
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Post by Guest on Sun Nov 03 2013, 14:12

I'm not a huge fan of dilutes in general, whether they're blues, fawns or isabellas; that's mainly due to the health risks, which often increase in that order. I don't dislike the look of them as such though. It's just a shame that some people are so obsessed with breeding a diluted colour that they just disregard the health of the dog. Sad It certainly doesn't help that those same people fail to do their research and advertise their blue dogs as a rare colour.

My hope is that, when people finally do realise that they aren't rare, they won't turn to producing the isabella dilute. That would cause so many problems, as they'd first have to introduce the liver colour into staffies, which would give irresponsible breeders plenty of time to cause serious health risks in the breed.

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Post by Guest on Fri Nov 08 2013, 10:09

well coming from the owner of a blue (which im thinking of dyeing lol:P ) im sick of seeing so many poor breed dogs dont forget 62% of kc dogs blue how many more if you take into account byb offerings that are not kc reg i bet you would be looking closer to 80% of staffs being breed or blues .
i also miss seeing a nice brindle or pied or dark staffie i wouldnt change him for the world but im getting tired of seeing blues now

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Post by Jasminesmum on Mon Nov 11 2013, 15:33

What is an Isabella?? Agree with all the above. Although Jasmines nose is definitely black.
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Post by Jasminesmum on Mon Nov 11 2013, 15:34

I too am in love with the reds. FAR rarer and totally beautiful:-)
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Post by Guest on Mon Nov 11 2013, 16:18

Isabella is mainly seen in Dobermans & is really a dilute of the red dobes. If you google Isabella Doberman images you'll see what I mean

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Post by Jasminesmum on Mon Nov 11 2013, 18:41

Thanks caryll. Had a look and really don't like the look of the colour at all.
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Post by Guest on Tue Nov 12 2013, 10:47

This is a good link about colour http://www.doggenetics.co.uk/dilutes.html

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Post by Jasminesmum on Tue Nov 12 2013, 19:44

Thanks Claire. Interesting read x
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Post by LKH on Mon Nov 18 2013, 00:14

What about all the other stunning Staffs, brindle, white, red, black and blue.. It should be the breed and how they are bred not the colour. 
So much bad breeding!
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Post by Guest on Mon Nov 18 2013, 08:38

LKH wrote:What about all the other stunning Staffs, brindle, white, red, black and blue.. It should be the breed and how they are bred not the colour. 
So much bad breeding!
That's it exactly. I honestly have nothing at all against blues, but neither do I want to see every other stafford's colour to be blue. At the moment, there aren't that many near me (about 5 or 6 that I know of), but none are what I would call 'well bred'. They're lovely, friendly little things, but bred for colour With at least one of them having severe skin issues. A year ago there were none in this area.

50+% of registrations is too much - it's stifling the other colours to such an extent that it's quite hard to find a non-blue in some areas.

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Post by Guest on Mon Nov 18 2013, 09:21

There aren't that many blues where I live. I have seen the odd one but most Staffs near me tend to be the traditional colours biggrin 

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Post by LKH on Mon Nov 18 2013, 09:30

I have a cousin in Scotland with a blue and he is stunning but why an Irish blue?? He is a blue staff!! Advertising them as irish blues makes them seem as if they are different, and the breeders charge almost £1000 for the puppies, it's a money making game for various people
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Post by Guest on Mon Nov 18 2013, 22:56

LKH wrote:I have a cousin in Scotland with a blue and he is stunning but why an Irish blue?? He is a blue staff!! Advertising them as irish blues makes them seem as if they are different, and the breeders charge almost £1000 for the puppies, it's a money making game for various people
An Irish Blue = a poorly bred long legged Blue Staff aka TYPE , and then people have the cheek to charge more money I dont want to s I dont want to s I dont want to s 

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Post by LKH on Tue Nov 19 2013, 12:03

Tbh he isn't long legged he is a handsome boy, I think it's to make people think that they have an extra special staff x
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Post by TonyW on Sun Feb 16 2014, 04:08

Great thread. When I recently started looking for a Puppy (my fourth Stafford over the years) I was absolutely amazed at how many of the litters being advertised on Champdogs and elsewhere were Blue.

I have had a Piebald, Black, (Tiger Striped) Brindle, and now a very dark Black/Brindle Puppy. And when walking my earlier Dogs I did not see too many Blues. In fact very few. I am talking about 25 Years ago when I had my first Staff. So they were probably rare back then.

But now its ridiculous, and they have the audacity to say they are rare and charge a premium.

I would estimate that 75-80% of the litters Isaw advertised were Blues. This was about three weeks ago. Check Champdogs now. You will be shocked.

I have never been a fan of the Blue colouring. Just personal taste. I now also worry about Dogs being bred for Colour and not for the many great traits inherent in the true Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

I also worry what happens to the Puppies when these Litters do not turn out as expected (ie Blue/Blue breeding issues etc.). Are they pts?. Are they passed on to the bastard Dogfighters (Dogs) or Breeding Factories (Bitches).
Are they passed on with no new owner vetting or Puppy health checks whatsoever, to unsuitable, ignorant owners. Or are these the Dogs that end up with chavvy arsehole owners who then go on to give the Stafford the totally inaccurate reputation that the British media love to promote, and the vast swathes idiots amongst British Public believe what they read in the press, and buy into.

My preference for colour is Reds and pure Blacks. I have never managed to find either that I would be happy with at the time of looking. But because I know the breed and its character traits I love Staffords and the colour becomes invisible to me.

Sorry for the rant.
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Post by Rachel33 on Sun Feb 16 2014, 08:52

Totally agree with you Tony! Don't apologize, everybody has the right to their opinion and this is a topic for concern that does come up often. The blue colour does nothing for me (personal preference) and I really dislike seeing these hugely over standard blues walking around, because to me, they're going too far away from the traditional stafford. My girl is possibly a cross, maybe a little boerboel but I can't be certain as she was an adult stray when I took her (would explain her guarding behaviour and laziness though lol) and is light fawn, but I've luckily had no problems that can't be managed with diet. I took her in because she was a "7 day dog" at the centre I worked at and didn't stand a chance, didn't even consider colour. My preference is also reds and blacks.

But to answer your question; yes, I had SO many blues coming into rescue and not one of them made it back out (not my choice to make, though didn't disagree with some of the decisions.) They all had severe problems, from OCD (constant spinning mostly) seen in 4 of the cases, to skin problems seen in all of them and one of the worst cases of dog aggression I think I've ever seen. I'm not saying there's anything "wrong" with the blue gene, but more the thousands of puppies that people are pumping out and selling to anyone and everyone without a clue about socialization, or nutrition, or behaviour and handling in general simply for money and image. One of the people paid £1,200 for their dog, who wasn't anywhere near to standard and had horrendous CDA. They took him back but had him PTS soon after. I couldn't even tell that some of these dogs were staffys, they looked almost American bully.. Though had KC names on their microchips.
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Post by Rachel33 on Sun Feb 16 2014, 08:56

There's also something similar going on with whippets/lurchers and over breeding blues. My step mum had a littler from her little fawn whippet and another fawn and got 2 of the most unusual blue/fawns back the rest were red fawn. Think she had about 30 homes lined up! All very healthy though not a single problem Smile
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