help with staffie

Hi everyone, I've just adopted a 6 year old staffie, Charlie, he's been with me for almost 4 weeks. He was the victim of an abusive family and seized by the police, then handed into a rescue centre. The rescue centre couldn't handle him and he was passed to another centre, they decided he was untrainable and he was due to be pts. Luckily I saw his picture and asked to see him, I was told about all the trouble they had with him and eventually I was allowed to see him in the isolation block. He is gorgeous! Yes, he has problems, but I felt they were due to being kenneled, he was so good when I took him home. I am an experienced dog owner, I've homed many older/troubled dogs in my (long) life, dobermann, german shepherd, and staffie cross among them, so I feel confident that I can handle Charlie. But he is different! I can see why people are potty about Staffies.
I thought only unwell dogs ate grass, but Charlie munches on it like its the best thing ever. I've stopped him eating it, but this evening I allowed him to indulge himself in the garden, I don't use weedkillers etc. so it is safe. But will it do him harm? Also, he is very windy. I feed him on Butchers chicken/tripe which he loves, but I'm still at the stage of working out what suits him. Because he was difficult in kennels he didn't receive much attention and he was overweight when he arrived at the 2nd centre. They managed to get his weight down to 17kg, and he is now 16.4kg. He is a very small, short legged male staffie and the vet is happy with his weight. I'll try to post a photo later.
Any comments/advice appreciated,

Hiya from me and Moo, nice one on rescuing again! These things take a bit of time, as you know from being experienced in many breeds.

Maybe come and say hi!

https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/f7-new-member-introductions

Looking forward to pics Xx

Hi and welcome to the forum from Rocky and me.

Butchers isn't the greatest quality food in the world, if you can get him onto something better please do so, i'm sure you would notice a difference in his behaviour once he is eating a good food and into a stable routine at home We have a list of recommended foods in the link below, James Welbeloved is also a reasonably good food at a reasonable price.

I could recommend Barking Heads as that's what Rocky has.

http://staffy-bull-terrier.com/dry_food

Congrats on your rescue! You should be proud of yourself for saving him from being put to sleep.

The grass could be a form of stereotypical (OCD) behaviour due to stress in his previous home. It's also possible that it could be a symptom of illness, so if you haven't already, I'd take him to the vet for a quick check-up. I think it's more likely to be stereotypical behaviour though.

It's possible that the grass munching will stop once he settles in with you, as it's likely to be associated with stressful situations. So I'd give it a week or so to watch and see how he is. In the mean time, persistent correcting when he tries to eat grass, with plenty of praise when he stops, could help.

I can't really add to the above but hello and welcome anyway

Grass munching in its self is a perfectly normal behavior in dogs. As long as there are no chemicals on the grass it will do him no harm.

Dog's eat grasses for a number of reasons and without observing him it would be impossible to say why. As you have said he has an upset gut and you are feeding him a lower quality food I would go with that as a likely culprit.

Try uping the quality of his food if you can like Kathy said and give him some raw veg to chew on in the house, carrots, cabbage etc. Swedes make good chew toys This will likely resolve it if that is the problem.

Stress would be the other reasonable suggestion and after all he has gone through it will take a good few weeks for his cortisol levels (a stress hormone) to lower. So lots of stress free times so he can adjust to his new enviroment.

Sounds like he has landed on his feet now anyway, good luck

Hi & welcome from darcy & me, great advice already given, I won't add to it, well done on the rescue

Thanks for all the advice.

I've used Butchers for all my dogs that had stomach problems and it proved to be excellent - even for the german shepherd which had a pancreatic enzyme deficiency (also treated him with enzyme replacement). I checked the analytical content of most of the canned foods and Butchers came out on top for protein, fat, and all the other important content. I couldn't find a dried food with comparable percentages, but would be interested in hearing of any better foods.
He doesn't like carrots, although he chews them and spits out the bits, but he does like apples. I also supply him with nylabones (the largest size) which keep him occupied.
For all his problems he has proved perfect in the office. He comes to work with me and has attended meetings and behaved impeccably. I had more problems with my colleagues who wanted him to sit with them!
Once again, thanks to you all, its nice to know there are people out there that will offer advice.

Hi from Ozzy and me. Ozz was rescued and had very bad wind when he first came home. I was recommended by a behaviourist to try Naturediet which he loves and i think has calmed him a little(?) and has certainly stopped the wind. He does have James Wellbeloved biscuits also and is a very well muscled boy now - 24kg ( he is rather tall)

Its so lovely to hear about other people who has rescued these real cuties, well done you

Don't just look at the percentage of protein content - look at whether or not the protein is from a good source. ie not meat meal.

The tinned food will also be about 80% water, so dry food is much better value for money.

Butchers is mainly grain and has lots of artifical flavourings, colourings and preservatives in it (why do you think its so many funky colours?!). Honestly you can't do much worse than Butchers, it also contains carcenogenics (sp?) which are banned in human food. This will be the reason he is very windy, dogs cannot digest ceral matter. Change to a good quality food and you will see a huge difference!

Sorry to push but I'm not sure my last post could convince you... Please look at these links.

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=426&cat=all

https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/t38421-new-food-massive-change-in-pooch

Nosipho wrote:Sorry to push but I'm not sure my last post could convince you... Please look at these links.

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=426&cat=all

But that's Bakers, not Butchers. Butchers doesn't have so much in the way of colours etc, but it still isn't great. They list ''51% Meat & Animal Derivatives'', but only 15% of that is actually meat and even then they don't say if it's quality meat or meat meal.

Nosipho
Butchers is mainly grain and has lots of artifical flavourings, colourings and preservatives in it (why do you think its so many funky colours?!). .......

I think you must be confusing Butchers with something else! There are NO preservatives, colourings,cereal or artificial flavourings in canned Butchers. Also, in reply to Caryll, I know canned food is expensive (Charlies has 3 x 400gm tins a day), but he's worth it. He also has fresh tuna & salmon and apples several times a week.

The good news is that he is settling down nicely. He has now discovered how to play games and gives his ball up to have it thrown again and again. He is also enjoying hide and seek. He is a much happier dog than he was 5 weeks ago.

Thanks for all the comments.

Mine loves grass and in fact I posted on here a couple of weeks ago because he was gorging himself on it. He's a tiny bit less keen now because (perhaps?) it's less luscious now that it's warmer outside.

My dog eats raw if that's of any interest. No wind except when he has some very fatty pork.

I want to know all about how you found Charlie and what it was that drew you to him. What is his personality like?

I love the fact that you have taken on so many troubled dogs. You must have a lot of stories. Is it always possible, in your experience, to turn them around? What kind of backgrounds did they have and what kind of problems did you end up solving?

Congratulations on Charlie.

Hi from me and the boys

Can only echo what the others have said butchers isn't a high quality food, but good advertising sways people

I feed raw and would always recommend it but it's not for everyone

Good for you on rescuing xx

Hi from me & Katy, well done on your rescue

Oops I'm such a clown! I obviously wasn't paying attention and thought it said Bakers! Butchers isn't nearly as bad but it is expensive for the ingredients you are getting. Since about 80% is water in tinned foods and the sources of protein are questionable! Glad things are improving and again well done for giving this dog one last chance

Rupertsbooks wrote:Mine loves grass and in fact I posted on here a couple of weeks ago because he was gorging himself on it. He's a tiny bit less keen now because (perhaps?) it's less luscious now that it's warmer outside.

My dog eats raw if that's of any interest. No wind except when he has some very fatty pork.

I want to know all about how you found Charlie and what it was that drew you to him. What is his personality like?

I love the fact that you have taken on so many troubled dogs. You must have a lot of stories. Is it always possible, in your experience, to turn them around? What kind of backgrounds did they have and what kind of problems did you end up solving?

Congratulations on Charlie.

Hi thanks for your comments.  I'm interested in the raw diet and have discussed this with a behaviourist at the dogs home and with Charlie's vet.  I'm a novice with 'raw' and didn't realise that many people mean frozen food, thawed and served raw, I thought it meant fresh meat only. I'm still looking into it.
My previous dog, a staffie cross (CoCo, also from the same dogs home) died at the beginning of April and I had decided not to have another dog for a while, but when I took all the dog food to a dogs home I saw a picture of the cutest staffie, tiny little boy with short legs and a very large head, he looked sad and confused,  his knuckles were scarred, he dragged his front feet because he was overweight from not being walked enough.   I couldn't find the dog and asked where he was and was told he wasn't on view to the public, he was in the isolation block.  I persisted and asked to be allowed to see him, I was then told he was hard to handle, basically given a very bleak account of him.  But I was taken into the block, and there in the kennel was a beautiful little dog who licked my hand, tried to give me a paw,but his legs are short and it turned into a 'high five'!  He stole my heart.  And that was that, over the next few days I was allowed to accompany his prime carer (the only person that would take him out, all the other staff refused to walk him) on his end of day walk, but it was terrible.  He had both a collar and a harness on, he was out of control, jumping up and snatching the handle of the lead, the response to this was to grab the collar and harness and push him to the ground. I did feel some sympathy for his carer, his teeth were nipping close to her hands.  After a couple of weeks I gave them an ultimatum, I didn't want to leave Charlie there, but I couldn't get them to agree to letting him come home with me.  The next day I had a phone call to say I could come and collect him!  When I picked him up he was crated and loaded into my car, I was told that if this went wrong I couldn't return him, I would have to be responsible for having him pts.  Needless to say, this was NOT going to happen.  I took him home, took off two collars and his harness (!) and let him find his way around my home.  He settled down immediately.  So much for an out of control dog.  
The downside came when I attended a meeting at the dogs home to discuss his dreadful background hoping to shed some light on his anxious behaviour.  As soon as we arrived at the centre he went mad, crazy, basically lost his marbles!  He was pleased to see the staff, but he couldn't contain himself and eventually he nipped the behaviourist.  He won't be going back, it set his rehabilition back and all weekend he paced up and down.  A week later he is settling down again.  
To answer your final question, I'm confident that most damaged dogs can be turned around, but they need an appropriate home and I suppose that is not always possible.  As a single older person I can offer my dogs the quiet home they need.  They have all come to work with me and without exception all have settled in without incident to the routine.  Both CoCo and Charlie had similar backgrounds, physically and verbally abused, kicked and punched.  CoCo was difficult because she was terrified of feet, for good reason.  But she was okay with me.  Charlie is more  confident and is trustworthy with people and dogs, he is easier to live with and I'm confident that, given time, he will be okay.  He already walks perfectly on a lead, nothing like the dog I saw in the dogs home, but there again I don't lock him in a kennel on his own.  He has also learned to give up his toys so that we can play.  He is a changed dog.
I must stop - I could go on and on about my dogs!  Thanks for your interest, its good to exchange info with 'doggy people'

charlies mum wrote:  I'm interested in the raw diet and have discussed this with a behaviourist at the dogs home and with Charlie's vet.  I'm a novice with 'raw' and didn't realise that many people mean frozen food, thawed and served raw, I thought it meant fresh meat only. I'm still looking into it.

Have a look through the following - if you've got any specific questions, just ask!

https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/t14787-raw-diet

http://rawfed.com/myths/preymodel.html

charlies mum wrote:  I must stop - I could go on and on about my dogs!  Thanks for your interest, its good to exchange info with 'doggy people'

Talk as much as you like - it's why we're all here!

Cannot offer any advice than has been said, but well done on the rescue and looking forward to some pics:D

RAW is the best IMO. Even the expensive 'quality' dried foods are too processed. As for the grass thing. ,my current Staff & my previous English Bullie X Staff both loved eating grass!

I switched to RAW for my English X Staff as he had terrible skin problems. Within a month of starting the RAW his skin cleared up & the shine on his coat! He looked like he'd been polished with 'Pledge'!

Great to hear you've rescued a dog. Our New boy is a rescue. There are plenty of Staffies out there needing homes (sadly). I'd definitely always look at a rescue dog! Good Luck:D 

Nosipho wrote:Butchers is mainly grain and has lots of artifical flavourings, colourings and preservatives in it (why do you think its so many funky colours?!). Honestly you can't do much worse than Butchers, it also contains carcenogenics (sp?) which are banned in human food. This will be the reason he is very windy, dogs cannot digest ceral matter. Change to a good quality food and you will see a huge difference!

The above is bang on the money, I feed mine fresh chicken and beef tripe with a little working dog mix added to it, he loves it, his coat is gleaming, it's the best food for dogs. I know it doesn't smell nice but the dogs love it.

The vet told me to feed him on that as I was concerned about him losing weight when I took him for his yearly injections, the vet said it's the best food for any dog and told me to stay away from tinned food as it's processed rubbish.

The cost of the chicken and beef tripe is 39p per frozen pack so for £5 a week your dog is getting the best food possible.