To Desex or not?

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Post by Steve Tue Nov 09 2010, 11:50

First topic message reminder :

Tongues i know everyone as strong opinions on this subject, i just want to see the poll results i dont want a big debate about it Tongues


Last edited by Steve on Fri Jul 08 2011, 16:03; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest Tue Apr 12 2011, 23:38

I will always spay and neuter my pets. We just got home from Saxon's neuter appointment and he's doing great!

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Post by Guest Wed Apr 13 2011, 11:46

Yes here in Australia the rate of dogs ( and cats ) put to sleep each week is cringe worthy! All the dog homes and shelters are always bursting at the seams.
Staffys are a popular breed here.. but you wouldn't believe the staffy cross puppies available every week in various classifieds.( people must think because they have staffy in them they are a sure fire seller !! )Makes you wonder just where the hell they will end up. I am sure alot won't have charmed homes like our lot have !
I never wanted Jethro to contribute to the already over populated canine world here, which is why he was desexed. ( just as well anyway because he is scared of his own shadow.. would hate him to have passed that on to all his offspring! )

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Post by Guest Wed Apr 13 2011, 11:47

CatStina wrote:I will always spay and neuter my pets. We just got home from Saxon's neuter appointment and he's doing great!

Glad that precious boy of yours is doing well. XX

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Post by johneva Thu Jun 02 2011, 14:12

My personal opinion is definatily give um the snip, unless you have a show dog or top quality dog thats health tested and good pedigree thats going to be good for for breeding I see no good reason not to.

Its just an accident waiting to happen otherwise, an there are far to many accidental breeding and breeding of poor quality or unhealthy pups. Main reason rescues are so full of unwanted staffys and why so many are getting put to sleep everyday.
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Post by Guest Thu Jun 02 2011, 16:37

johneva wrote:My personal opinion is definatily give um the snip, unless you have a show dog or top quality dog thats health tested and good pedigree thats going to be good for for breeding I see no good reason not to.

Its just an accident waiting to happen otherwise, an there are far to many accidental breeding and breeding of poor quality or unhealthy pups. Main reason rescues are so full of unwanted staffys and why so many are getting put to sleep everyday.

I'm afraid that's a very sweeping statement. I've had several un neutered males over the years & none of them have had 'accidental' matings! It all comes down to responsible ownership.

I'm not against neutereing as such, but I find statements like that very misleading & quite insulting to those of us who can and do control our dogs.

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Post by johneva Thu Jun 02 2011, 18:23

Caryll wrote:
I'm afraid that's a very sweeping statement. I've had several un neutered males over the years & none of them have had 'accidental' matings! It all comes down to responsible ownership.

I'm not against neutereing as such, but I find statements like that very misleading & quite insulting to those of us who can and do control our dogs.

Sorry I did not mean to offend anybody just dont see the point in the dog having sex parts if you dont plan on breeding personally.

I am not saying you carnt control your dog but mistakes happen, what if the dog escapes without your knowledge till its to late? Or something.

Also increased risk of cancer without neutering.

An I did say personal opinion, of course its upto the dog owner what they do with their dog, but me personally would always neuter.
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Post by Deverill Thu Jun 02 2011, 19:07

Agh I'm so confused!

I know nothing about spaying, but I need to read up on it to know what's best to do for my pup when I get her.

I dont want pups out of her and I know getting her spayed will decrease the risk of cancers (been reading Wikipedia).

But there are also disadvantages Which increase some other things.

What do people think of Tubal ligation?

Also spaying it's quite a invasive and big procedure.
What do I do!

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Post by Steve Thu Jun 02 2011, 19:27

with my females i get them spade after 2/3 years the blood gets everywhere but the down side it some do get fat and it's hard getting it off them, i take my xena out twice a day for 45mins to a hour per wallk she still big,

my sam i dont know to get neutered or not, people say it will stop him getting cancer but it wont he still get plenty of other types get,

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Post by Deverill Thu Jun 02 2011, 19:32

Hmm it's difficult!

I've read that if you get them spayed before their first heat they have a 99.5% less risk of getting cancers than if you got a older dog spayed where it decreases to 92%.

So that's why I'm thinking about it now.

But it also increases urinary tract problems etc.

What is the percentage of a staff getting cancers? And are they prone to any specific types?

I've also read getting her spayed decreases a hormone which can increase her aggression levels.

So what I'm thinking of maybe doing is getting the tube tied thing.

Aaaahhhhh

What I'm thinking abou

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Post by janey Thu Jun 02 2011, 19:37

Do whats right for you. There is know quick answer and there will always be pros and cons and its one subject that everyone really has different views on. Me, I had my first done before her first season, and Moo was booked into to be done also before her first season, but then came into season on the day of the op. Its a personal choice but do your homework and whats right for you and her x
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Post by Steve Thu Jun 02 2011, 19:40

i've heard if you get a female spade before her first season it stops them growing but i dont know if that true or not,

Sad sad really you just cant stop dogs getting cancer all you can do it dont let your dog lay in the sun for to long and do a full boby search now and then.


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Post by Deverill Thu Jun 02 2011, 19:44

I reckon when I get her and take her for her jabs I'll have a chat with the vet.

Meh, I hate these sorts of decisions!

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Post by janey Thu Jun 02 2011, 19:49

Meh rolling on the floor Thats my word, I say it all the time, love it!!!!!! Just do your own research and do whats best for you x
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Post by Guest Thu Jun 02 2011, 21:11

johneva wrote:
Caryll wrote:
I'm afraid that's a very sweeping statement. I've had several un neutered males over the years & none of them have had 'accidental' matings! It all comes down to responsible ownership.

I'm not against neutereing as such, but I find statements like that very misleading & quite insulting to those of us who can and do control our dogs.

Sorry I did not mean to offend anybody just dont see the point in the dog having sex parts if you dont plan on breeding personally.

I am not saying you carnt control your dog but mistakes happen, what if the dog escapes without your knowledge till its to late? Or something.

Also increased risk of cancer without neutering.

An I did say personal opinion, of course its upto the dog owner what they do with their dog, but me personally would always neuter.

My dog is NEVER out of my sight, or out of my control. He can't get out of the house without someone taking him. As I said, I'm not against neutering (although I feel that a dog should be allowed to mature first - ie a dog should be 18 months or older & a bitch should have at least one, preferably two saesons first), but it's a very personal decision. The increased risk of cancer is certainly there, but I've had 9 dogs, only one of which was spayed (due to medical reasons - pyometra) and none developed cancer that could be related to them not being neutered.

Deverill wrote:Agh I'm so confused!

I know nothing about spaying, but I need to read up on it to know what's best to do for my pup when I get her.

I dont want pups out of her and I know getting her spayed will decrease the risk of cancers (been reading Wikipedia).

But there are also disadvantages Which increase some other things.

What do people think of Tubal ligation?

Also spaying it's quite a invasive and big procedure.
What do I do!

Tubal ligation will not stop your bitch coming into season, nor will it decrease the risk of cancer. Although spaying is a major operation, it is a straightforward one and if done after a bitch's 1st or 2nd season will not affect either her growth (her sexual organs being included here - ie the vulva) or her temperament.

Deverill wrote:Hmm it's difficult!

I've read that if you get them spayed before their first heat they have a 99.5% less risk of getting cancers than if you got a older dog spayed where it decreases to 92%.

So that's why I'm thinking about it now.

But it also increases urinary tract problems etc.

What is the percentage of a staff getting cancers? And are they prone to any specific types?

I've also read getting her spayed decreases a hormone which can increase her aggression levels.

So what I'm thinking of maybe doing is getting the tube tied thing.

Aaaahhhhh

What I'm thinking abou

The increased risk of cancer if you allow her to have 1 or 2 seasons is minimal, and when you consider that most un-neutered bitches never get mammary cancer (which is the main one affected by spaying) the risk is very small.

If you spay a bitch too young (ie before a first season) her vulva may remain very small even when she reaches her full size. This can hamper the passing of urine and can lead to urine burn and infections.

I'm not trying to put you off, just give you something to think about. Please read up as much information as you can, both pro and con, and then weigh up the results and decide.

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Post by Deverill Thu Jun 02 2011, 21:16

Thanks, I'm defo reading as it's not something I want to do light heartedly. So the more opinions/information is welcome.




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Post by johneva Fri Jun 03 2011, 09:39

My dog is NEVER out of my sight, or out of my control. He can't get out of the house without someone taking him. As I said, I'm not against neutering (although I feel that a dog should be allowed to mature first - ie a dog should be 18 months or older & a bitch should have at least one, preferably two saesons first), but it's a very personal decision. The increased risk of cancer is certainly there, but I've had 9 dogs, only one of which was spayed (due to medical reasons - pyometra) and none developed cancer that could be related to them not being neutered.

I see you point but accidents happen, what if you thought the door was shut but the foot mat kept it open for example, yes its rare but accidents happen. Luckly we have never had our dog escape yet, but accidents happen.

As for leaving them time to mature totally agree Molly has only just been done, literally just still got her stitches in now we aranged it for 3 months after first season like the vet advised and most sources advise.

But as you say its a personal decision that only the dog owner can make at the end of the day. There is no right or wrong answer to the question all you can do is research about it and make your choice.

ersonally it was an easy decision for me and my partner, there is noway on this earth we would want molly to have an accidental pregancy, then their is the hassle of seasons first one was bad enough lol. Reduced risk of cancer.

A male for me even would be an easy answer, but not quite so important in one way, end of the day its not the male that can get pregnant. But the reduced risk of cancer reduced risk of humping your leg, reduce risk of aggression.

Its an easy one for me to answer for myself, but each owner has to make their own decision on whats best for their dog.



Agreed
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Post by Guest Fri Jun 03 2011, 10:20

johneva wrote:My personal opinion is definatily give um the snip, unless you have a show dog or top quality dog thats health tested and good pedigree thats going to be good for for breeding I see no good reason not to.

Its just an accident waiting to happen otherwise, an there are far to many accidental breeding and breeding of poor quality or unhealthy pups. Main reason rescues are so full of unwanted staffys and why so many are getting put to sleep everyday.
I agree x

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Post by Guest Fri Jun 03 2011, 10:41

We plan on getting harvey done but not until he is at least 18 months but more likely 2 years old, but thats my personal preference but i want to get him done eventually

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Post by shakespearesdog Fri Jun 03 2011, 22:39

For a vast majority of dogs its a good thing, but i personally cringe at the thought. Romeo has such a fantastic personality and i don't want to risk that changing, i've heard of several dogs getting very nervy after they get chopped. All this fuss about cancers and such, testicular and prostate cancer is VERY rare in dogs. All the dogs i've known have been uncastrated males, none were dominating and none ran off after bitches.
Romeo completely ignores females unless they want to play. I also like how he looks with balls, i think dogs without balls look horrible and unnatural. If it was so awful for dogs to have balls why are they born with them?
Females on the otherhand, unless it was a kc reg show dog, i would get spayed after 2-3 seasons, as thats rather different.
I just wanted to add, someone said what if your dog escaped? My dog won't go anywhere without me, he knows hes not allowed out of the house without my consent, just as he will walk to heel with his cheek glued to my leg down the street.
A lot of people seem incapable of training their dogs correctly and think chopping their balls off is some sort of holy grail that will automatically make their dogs model citizens.

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Post by Guest Sat Jun 04 2011, 00:20

johneva wrote:
I see you point but accidents happen, what if you thought the door was shut but the foot mat kept it open for example, yes its rare but accidents happen. Luckly we have never had our dog escape yet, but accidents happen.


I'm in a weird position home-wise. In order for my dog to get out without me, he would have to go through a heavy front door, an inner garden gate & then two path gates! Belive me, he can't escape! Laughing

shakespearesdog wrote: All the dogs i've known have been uncastrated males, none were dominating and none ran off after bitches.

Unfortunately an entire male can completely change when he smells an on heat bitch! However, as long as you're careful it nedd never happen!

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Post by Mick Sat Jun 25 2011, 13:19

i was all for leaving them be (or rather leaving Storm be) that was untill we got Summer.
then it was a must.
Poor Stormy, people look at him now and say 'was is IT, a boy or girl'. thats rite he's an IT Surprised
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Post by Guest Sat Jun 25 2011, 13:49

I think if you have one of each & you don't want to breed, then the best option is to neuter.

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Post by Guest Sat Jun 25 2011, 13:57



I am proud to tell everyone that Jethro is an " it '.... and his brother Winston will be following in his footprints ! ( pawprints! ) Big Grin

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Post by giblet Thu Jul 07 2011, 21:41

shontelle wrote:I think if we're not planning to breed or show our dogs, then we should castrate/spay them. But I'm still undecided as to the right age to do it .
the earlyer the better
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Post by Guest Thu Jul 07 2011, 21:42

giblet wrote:
shontelle wrote:I think if we're not planning to breed or show our dogs, then we should castrate/spay them. But I'm still undecided as to the right age to do it .
the earlyer the better

What do you mean by 'early' and why?

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Post by Guest Thu Jul 07 2011, 22:06

Caryll wrote:
giblet wrote:
shontelle wrote:I think if we're not planning to breed or show our dogs, then we should castrate/spay them. But I'm still undecided as to the right age to do it .
the earlyer the better

What do you mean by 'early' and why?

I have always had mine spayed before their first season. There are a good number of people that believe this has a negative effect on their growth and that they will always remain puppy like. I chose this option and timeframe because I do not plan to show or breed and don't want them to experience any sexual frustration.

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Post by giblet Thu Jul 07 2011, 22:07

Guest wrote:
Caryll wrote:Here we go again! Whilst I think the decision for neutering is a personal one, the age it's done is important. Unless it's a matter of medical necessity then I think the dog/bitch should be allowed to mature first & thereby gain mature confidence and gender character. With staffords that would be around 18 months - 2 years.
I would of said this is untrue at first, but now I would say your right. Only saying this because we got bubbles done at 6 months and he's small for a male. People think he's female. We now no If we waited till he was a year old or older he would of bin a lot bigger. His balls at a 6 month old was very big for him. Well that's what the vet said when we got him done.
i got mine done at 6 months and he is a right lump
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Post by Guest Thu Jul 07 2011, 22:15

jstaff wrote:
I have always had mine spayed before their first season. There are a good number of people that believe this has a negative effect on their growth and that they will always remain puppy like. I chose this option and timeframe because I do not plan to show or breed and don't want them to experience any sexual frustration.

I've only ever had one dog neutered (medical emergency) and I can honestly say that none of them have suffered from sexual frustration! Yes, the boys have occasionally humped things, but a nuetered dog (and bitch) will also hump at times.

One example I can personally give of a too early neutering is my boss's GSD bitch. She was neutered at nearly 6 months, before her first season. She has never ohysically gone beyond the gangly 'teenage' stage, and her vulva is underdeveloped. This means that she has some problems urinating & gets urine burn unless her privates are cleaned carefully every day.

If you can't handle a bitch's season (just the one will suffice), then don't get a bitch.

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Post by janey Thu Jul 07 2011, 23:13

Thats a bit harsh Caryll. My first was done before her first season, and she matured nicely, Moo also would have been but came into season on the day of her op.

I would only have a bitch, its personal choice x
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Post by Guest Thu Jul 07 2011, 23:17

janey wrote:Thats a bit harsh Caryll. My first was done before her first season, and she matured nicely, Moo also would have been but came into season on the day of her op.

I would only have a bitch, its personal choice x

I'm not saying that it happens every time, I just get so annoyed by people who choose a sex, but aren't prepared to put up with the natural things that come with that sex (I want a dog, but chop his bits off, or I want a bitch but I'm gonna put her through a major operation at 5 months old). As I've said before, I'm not against neutering, just early neutering as it can cause far more problems than it solves.

Yes, some do mature ok, but an awful lot don't, especially the bitches.

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Post by Guest Thu Jul 07 2011, 23:32

Caryll wrote:
janey wrote:Thats a bit harsh Caryll. My first was done before her first season, and she matured nicely, Moo also would have been but came into season on the day of her op.

I would only have a bitch, its personal choice x

I'm not saying that it happens every time, I just get so annoyed by people who choose a sex, but aren't prepared to put up with the natural things that come with that sex (I want a dog, but chop his bits off, or I want a bitch but I'm gonna put her through a major operation at 5 months old). As I've said before, I'm not against neutering, just early neutering as it can cause far more problems than it solves.

Yes, some do mature ok, but an awful lot don't, especially the bitches.

I've always prefered females and gotten them spayed at the 6 month mark simply because I have no desire to breed or spay. I've never had a dog with a devolpmental issue as a result. It's a sensitive topic that even vets have different opinions about.

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Post by Guest Thu Jul 07 2011, 23:37

You see, that's where I disagree. I fully understand someone wanting to spay because they don't want to breed or show. I've no problem with that. But it is a fact that some dogs (especially females) develop problems with underdeveloped sexual organs (vulva), incontinence, and arrested developement.

All I say is, give the dog time to develop properly before spaying - with a bitch, after 1 (or preferable 2) seasons, and with a dog when he's mature (which depends on the breed - with staffs I'd say at least 12 months, preferably 18 months. Amstaffs possibly a little older as the larger the breed, the later the developement).

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Post by Guest Thu Jul 07 2011, 23:39

Anyway, sorry for the rant - I'll shut up now! Big Grin

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Post by Guest Thu Jul 07 2011, 23:56

Caryll wrote:Anyway, sorry for the rant - I'll shut up now! Big Grin

No problem and you make a valid point. Forums are a place for debates, informatoin and education. Besides if everyone was of the same opinion and had the same experiences this would be a bit boring.

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Post by Guest Fri Jul 08 2011, 03:35

My instructor at puppy school said that male dogs can be desexed from 4 months of age but my vet said he doesn't like to do them before they are 6 months when they are more developed. So Winston.. make the most of the next few months !! insert evil laugh he

Jethro was done about 6 months and he too is a big lump of lard !! Laughing

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Post by Guest Fri Jul 08 2011, 08:32

Caryll wrote:
janey wrote:Thats a bit harsh Caryll. My first was done before her first season, and she matured nicely, Moo also would have been but came into season on the day of her op.

I would only have a bitch, its personal choice x

I'm not saying that it happens every time, I just get so annoyed by people who choose a sex, but aren't prepared to put up with the natural things that come with that sex (I want a dog, but chop his bits off, or I want a bitch but I'm gonna put her through a major operation at 5 months old). As I've said before, I'm not against neutering, just early neutering as it can cause far more problems than it solves.

Yes, some do mature ok, but an awful lot don't, especially the bitches.

Yes caryll it can in some cases cause problems but it also can save lives so 2 be so general and say it can cause more problems than it solves is incorrect, u are not a vet and have no proof of this. As said a million and one times everyones opinions are different but i dont think u are in a position make statements like that Love Struck x

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Post by Guest Fri Jul 08 2011, 08:50

I got Cairo done before her first season.She has developed into a chunky monkey with no problems.The main reason i got her done so early was because we used to live next door to an idiot with a male staffy that he had no control over and i didnt want the dog getting through the fence to Cairo.Wasnt worth the risk.I wanted to get her done anyway,but just opted for sooner rather than later!

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Post by johneva Fri Jul 08 2011, 09:50

Plan on getting Luna done at 9-12 Months to let him mature and help with building his muscal structure.

Molly was done at about 12 Months which was 3 months after her first season.
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Post by Guest Fri Jul 08 2011, 10:18

blaze wrote:Yes caryll it can in some cases cause problems but it also can save lives so 2 be so general and say it can cause more problems than it solves is incorrect, u are not a vet and have no proof of this. As said a million and one times everyones opinions are different but i dont think u are in a position make statements like that Love Struck x

No, I'm not a vet. However, the main reason for early spaying (other than unwanted litters) is mammary tumours. Although I accept that the likelihood of getting these tumours rises with each season, the difference in statistics between early spaying & spaying after one (or even 2) seasons is negligible. Vets usually only give you one viewpoint & I think that is so wrong, people should be given full facts & left to make their own judgement.

Lisa & Cairo wrote:I got Cairo done before her first season.She has developed into a chunky monkey with no problems.The main reason i got her done so early was because we used to live next door to an idiot with a male staffy that he had no control over and i didnt want the dog getting through the fence to Cairo.Wasnt worth the risk.I wanted to get her done anyway,but just opted for sooner rather than later!

I would heartily endorse what you did - the risk would not have been worth it!

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Post by Steve Fri Jul 08 2011, 10:19

My vet willn't do any dog under 1 year old becasue it can cause problems & i wouldn't put my dog at any type of risk, All my females as been done when they have been 3 year old. IMO you have to let your female dog develop.


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Post by Guest Fri Jul 08 2011, 10:21

I want to get Russell done in the hope it will chill his dominance issues a bit, he must dominate every dog...
also he has been humping every thing lately... especially my parent's lab's head and my leg.

My O/H doesn't want to because he wants to leave the option open if we decide to breed him, but I really don't think we need to. he is a companion dog not a stud!

I guess we can leave it till 12 months and sort out what we want to do before that.

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Post by Steve Fri Jul 08 2011, 11:17

Getting your dogs neutered or spade will not stop your dog getting cancer if it was that simple we would all be doing it, It a compaign to stop unwanted litters and IMO has made things worse its scaring people off getting real help, It's been going on for years and there are more unwanted pups today than there has ever been. I've seen people calling people & getting threatened on other forums, facebook & twitter this is not helping at all & i think it's time to change the record because people don't go looking for help anymore. They know they will get abused by keyboard warriors lets help them instead of scare mongering!

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Post by Guest Fri Jul 08 2011, 11:24

russdogmum wrote:I want to get Russell done in the hope it will chill his dominance issues a bit, he must dominate every dog...
also he has been humping every thing lately... especially my parent's lab's head and my leg.

My O/H doesn't want to because he wants to leave the option open if we decide to breed him, but I really don't think we need to. he is a companion dog not a stud!

I guess we can leave it till 12 months and sort out what we want to do before that.

Unfortunately, castration may or may not stop your dog's dominance. If it's purely hormone related, then yes it probably will. But if, like me, you have a dog that has been dominant from birth near enough, then castration won't make an iota of difference.

I agree that you don't need to (or even should) breed from him, and if you're worried that he may father pups unintentionally then by all means go ahead. There are far too many litters bred by people who feel that their dog 'has a right' to have pups at least once in their lives. Unfortunately there are thousnads of unwanted dogs out there who were born for exactly that reason.

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Post by Guest Fri Jul 08 2011, 11:55

Im with you on the breeding thing, but I think my OH has always wanted to have a go at breeding staffs, but we'll see, I doubt we'd have the time for that in the future anyway, he's all talk Wink

so your dog is dominant? I need advice on how to deal with him sometimes it gets a bit much, but I'll check out other posts andstart a new one if i dont find info i need Smile

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Post by Guest Fri Jul 08 2011, 11:58

Yes, Dempsey's very dominant - start a new thread & we'll see what happens!

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Post by giblet Fri Jul 08 2011, 21:18

caryll i agree in leting girls having a couple of seasons the reason i had my boy done was because he was trying to hump every dog he came across from great dane to jack russel male or female and they keep trying to bite him i did,nt want him getting hurt or worse him turning on other dogs i was never gona breed him so they had to come off
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Post by Guest Fri Jul 08 2011, 23:17

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing. As has been said, it's all a matter of opinion and as long as you have your dog's best interests in mind that's what counts. When I got my first male (donkeys years ago, as it seems now!) I had a long talk with a vet friend (who became the 'family' vet!) about neutering dogs. It was him that told me that neutering doesn't always stop undesirable behaviour. It will only stop hormone related behaviour, not dominance, unless it is caused by hormones.

ie, if your dog is dominant as a pup, then castration is unlikely to make any difference. If your dog becomes dominant after/during maturity then it may help.

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Post by gem Fri Jul 08 2011, 23:32

Im not for and Im not against but would never neuter a little puppy Id let my dogs mature then make a decicion what would be right for them individualy. My girl was neutered at 3 years old and my boy isnt neutered I dont think he needs to be done Im not going to put him through that its unessesary Smile
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