I'd like your opinions please?

Let me say first there is a woman at training whose training methods for her dog are not to my liking. So, we are doing group recall, tell our dogs to sit and stay and then walk into the middle of the room facing our dogs. I am stood next to this woman but with my back to her dog. I am facing up the hall and she is facing down, if you get my gist. I am looking at Ruby telling her to stay when suddenly there is the most terrible noise as if someone is killing a dog. Ruby gets up from her sit stay and starts walking towards me with a puzzled look on her face. It turns out that the woman next to me's dog had got up from his sit and she was dragging him back to his place by the skin on his neck! It upset the whole class as everyone's dog broke their sit stay. Now in my opinion anyone who physically drags their dog around like that with it making a terrible noise needs her head examined? No respect for her from the dog? It was petrified. Neither of the trainers intervened. Now am I being a softy or did she do right to teach the dog a lesson? Answers on a postcard please as I think I've taken up enough of your time reading this. It just really got to me, sorry! I don't do physical punishment like that.

Poor dog, I cannot believe the trainers did not say or do anything.

thats awful, out trainers do not allow anything like that at all and would have stepped in, poor dog

i know what you mean its shocked me aswell poor dog i would of said something. it obviously scared ruby and the other dogs did any of the other dog owners say anything?

That sounds very wrong, I don't think our trainer would ever have allowed that either.

It was our last bit of training so we finished after that but there was a lot of muttering in the car park including me! I don't like the woman anyway as at our first night she looked at us with THAT sort of look as if THAT breed of dog was any good at being trained. Grrrrrrrrrr![i]

Your not allowed to do that at our training school. Just a firm no.

That sounds very wrong to me. Poor dog.

Yeah I feel sorrier for the dog each week. He is a lovely dog just a bit thick. Ruby is just as good as him at picking out the scent thing and he is some sort of obedience/sporty dog. I think he is a black pointer? Anyway, he can have a good loving home with me any time and I wouldn't dream of dragging him round a village hall by the scruff of his neck! Sorry, still wound up by that woman!!!!

Dragging dogs about by the scruff (unless you're trying to break up a fight or something) is prolly up there with making him read off cue-cards on the top ten list of retarded training methods

No she did not do the right thing! The dog will just get more and more insecure about what it's doing and break it's stay's more - BUT it will not go up to her anymore it'll start running off and not recall at all for fear of punishment.
We have a similar sounding lady in Advanced class - and if we've told her once we've told her a million times not to punish the dog for doing something wrong. It's totally pointless she ignores all advice and does what she thinks. We've even told her not to come to classes anymore and she still comes. We even move randomly from one field to another but she finds us. Sometimes training is not all it's supposed to be

Oh forgot to add - I have yanked Xan back into position once, but that was to break a nast little habit he had started of getting up BUT he didn't yelp or scream in fear of his life - he just got a fright.
Thats another thing - if you scream at your dog or push and pull it to sit/down/stay you have to always do it to get the dog into that position. Thats why reward/ positive reinforcement training has such good results.

I'm stopping now!

Oxide wrote:No she did not do the right thing! The dog will just get more and more insecure about what it's doing and break it's stay's more - BUT it will not go up to her anymore it'll start running off and not recall at all for fear of punishment.
We have a similar sounding lady in Advanced class - and if we've told her once we've told her a million times not to punish the dog for doing something wrong. It's totally pointless she ignores all advice and does what she thinks. We've even told her not to come to classes anymore and she still comes. We even move randomly from one field to another but she finds us. Sometimes training is not all it's supposed to be

I've heard that snipers can be extremely useful in situations like this.

Just a thought

Would you like me to give you the address of the village hall where we go for training classes? It's er, Gargrave, Wednesday afternoons at 5pm but I didn't tell you that did I?

I'm not posting my opinion on this for fear of blowing the swear filters up totally.

OMG - What a B**ch!!

Good job I wasn't there - she would have received more than a mouth full from me.

I have attended many classes and have never come across anything like this.

I am not surprised you were upset and shocked by this -

Could you not speak with the trainers on your next visit and voice your concern?

Gosh that has really annoyed me - Rant over

I certainly will be doing so next week. I'm so angry about it - still!

Hello

I am pleased you are going to say something - She shouldn't be training with methods like that - doesn't set a good example does it.

Poor pooch

The trainer at our class would step in there. I think your right to have a word with the trainer especially as it is unsettling for the other dogs. Ann

I know my trainer wouldn't stand for anything like that - she prefers positive reinforcement, and so do I!!
Poor dog - is she always hard on him?

Yes she is, her commands are sharp and she is rough with him. Thinking back I think she was probably very ashamed of herself as she was first out of the door that night. God knows how the poor dog gets on at home? I WILL be saying something to the trainers next week as I don't want to train next to her if that's how she thinks she will get results from her dog. Ruby is no angel and sometimes gets up from a sit stay but we've been trained to go back quietly and sit them firmly back down with a quiet but firm "stay".

Glad you are going to say something Jan, poor dog. Like you say how does it fair at home

Poor dog! I'd wonder what happens at home as well. I'd def say something but I'd prob be more likely to make a smart comment to her infront of everyone than speak to the trainer. She's right out of line IMO.

Ok, can I have some smart lines please? I promise I'll use the best one! I'm not too good at thinking of cutting one liners at the right moments, I always think of one afterwards!

Sure! (postcard reply out the window on this on.)

'OI!' How would you like it if I did that to you? Do you think it would help YOU learn anything?

Do you treat your kids like that when they are trying to learn something new?

That looks like a "REALLY" usefull training tactic!

My goodness, If you do that at class what the bl**dy hell do you do to it at home?

Well now! That will cert help to build up trust between your dog & yourself, "WONT IT!"

Hey! Do you think your dog is a bag of rubbish that you are dragging to the bin? STOP DOING THAT RIGHT NOW!!!

You'll get more from your dog with Honey than you will with salt!

Geeeeeezzzz, your dog must really feel wanted & loved by you!

No wonder it breaks from a stay. You prob yell at it to "come" as well & it's confused as to what you want it to do.

BRILLIANT! That's a great reaction when it is trying to learn a new task!

Excuse me???? Do you want me to video you & play it back so you can see what your doing to your dog?

Don't you think that's a bit harsh! You know if that was a child you'd be arrested for that type of treatment!

Since that's not working for you, maybe you could try respect instead of dominance & see how you go?

It's a shame dog's cant use a phone as I have the ph no of a great rescue centre that could prob help him find a good home with caring & understanding owners who take the time to train with love & respect, not fear & abuse!

What do you think you are going to achieve with that sort of reaction?

Ah yes, that's the way! Fear & abuse is def the best way to train a dog IMO!

I could go on forever. . . .



Hope that helps. & if all else fails. . .

I'd say, "A DOG does have feelings you know! Why don't you try to understand the fact that it is trying it's best & we all take time to learn new things. If I spoke to you in doggie language, "woof, woof" would you know what I wanted you to do?
Dogs dont speak english from birth you know. They are learning a new language! & just as it would take you some time to master "French etc" you need to give it time to learn as well!

& if that dosen't work, drag HER around by the neck as you bark doggie commands "grrrf, wooof, owww, rufff" & ask her why SHE dosent get it 1st time.

If she's anything like the retard we have - nothing will help!! AND I had the great news that she'll be at training today!! I'm contemplating hiring a hitman.

I love them all Tracy but this one is my favourite:

"& if that dosen't work, drag HER around by the neck as you bark doggie commands "grrrf, wooof, owww, rufff" & ask her why SHE dosent get it 1st time. "

No worries Jan.
I used to keep my comments to myself (sort of) but, no longer! Now I speak my mind & It really gets my goat when people treat a dog like that. They are NOT mind readers.
Just like us they really do need time to learn something new. Some do pick it up quicker than others & we "humans" just need to take that into account when we ask something new of our puppies.

Let me know how you go if you do broach it with her. When's your next training session?

Next Wednesday at 5pm. We train now for an hour and a half as I think a group of us will be going to Crufts to do a demonstration. This is why doing something like that and totally spooking Ruby is not something I'm happy about. I'm glad I shared it with the forum as I was so annoyed about it and I'm feeling much better for seeing all your replies in that you think the same as me.

janandruby wrote:I love them all Tracy but this one is my favourite:

"& if that dosen't work, drag HER around by the neck as you bark doggie commands "grrrf, wooof, owww, rufff" & ask her why SHE dosent get it 1st time. "

Totally reminded me of one of my favourite Far Side cartoons...

I LOVE the Far Side Cartoons!!!!!

Brilliant P3

I love the far side as well p3. & it really is what they hear.

Do you know that's exactly what I hear when certain people are talking to me! Blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm enlightened, thank you!

How did you get on this week Jan?

Busy night at training so we were straight into it. She was across the hall from me and the first thing I noticed was that whilst all the other dogs were having fun over the jumps and through the tunnels she had him sat facing her not joining in as if he was a naughty child! So I glared at her, no response. Then later on as we were training to go round to heel I started chuntering about people who don't train dogs kindly but I think it fell on deaf ears. Nothing was said by trainers but I have a feeling they had a word with her in private as the dog had a collar on and at no time did she yank the poor thing about the hall. Some improvement I suppose. Still don't like her training methods and I don't like her, she's gobby and a bully. There is always next week, I have time on my side! Sorry, rant, rant! I'll shut up now.

i always used the scuff of candys neck when she was a pup but i never hert her, i have put her back into her position. it has not done candy any harm, she knows that if i tell her to stay she will stay or i will put her back into her postition but i never made her cry. when she stays i give her a treat.

at the end of the day we all have different ways of dealing with our dogs but there are times and places. if candy misbehaves now i squez her ear on the tip and she knows that i mean business.