spay/neuter legislation?

How do you feel about mandatory spay/neuter legislation?

i think it's infringes on pet owners’ rights.

Although I believe in neutering all dogs that are not going to be bred from, I don't think it should be made madatory. With some dogs it can do more harm than good and neutering to young can bring on other problems. Some bitches rarely have a season, I know 1 that had her first season when she was 6 years old and it wasn't a full one, it would be pointless spaying her.

There is some thought that neutering a dog between the age of 8 to 12 months old causes the dog to become more fearful as this is one of the fear periods of pups.

wot about the dogs rights,after all every one and thing has them....

When I see the litters of abandoned puppies in our pounds, and the state of Ireland's puppy farms, I have to say that I am in support of mandatory neutering/spaying. Add to the fact that so many dogs end up straying because they've run after a bitch in heat and to me it seems like a good idea

gosh this is a difficult one, so many good arguments for and agianst, guess i'm waivering between the two.
how would this be enforced? easy target will be registered pups, and not entirely sure this is where it should be aimed !!
Kc has enforced regs for regisration of litters of pups, in an attempt to protect bitch and stop puppy farming,(although those with no morals can find ways round this as we all know!!)

In mine opinion we have it here in Holland at the right end
Aldo there is a list of Dangerous dogs and the SBT is on that list you can debate in favor or against the list fact is there are allot less x breeds over here (and i mean staffy cross) you may not breed your crossbreed and if there is a bite incident or people complain that you have a cross breed the will terminate the dog if you dont show the right papers .
I think for the breed (not only SBT but al breeds) its the best and at the end there will be lesser dogs in rescues
A other thing i think should be done is that breeders should get qualified papers to breed dogs
And only qualified dog breeders may breed , maybe something for an other topic

im 50/50 on this one as arguments for and against are good arguments

good points Hardtrackz, not sure with staffies in numbers they are, it would be viable, they are still breeding pits and they are banned !! trouble is uk laws etc are only half hearted adhered to and the enforcers target wrong people and usually easy targets, but like you say thats a different discussion x

i got my female do becouse i almost loss her with he 2 litter

I have to say, even though its for all the right reasons, i have to disagree and says it infringes rights also.

Too many ways round it too, it would'nt work anyway IMO

I think the KC should put more retrictions on breeding also
Change the age of breeding bitches from 12mths to 2yrs and cap them at 5yrs and limit number of litters each bitch can have to only two in a lifetime.

Also the amount of litters each breeder can have in a year to only two although i think 1 is suffice

staffsrock wrote:I have to say, even though its for all the right reasons, i have to disagree and says it infringes rights also.

Too many ways round it too, it would'nt work anyway IMO

I think the KC should put more retrictions on breeding also
Change the age of breeding bitches from 12mths to 2yrs and cap them at 5yrs and limit number of litters each bitch can have to only two in a lifetime.

Also the amount of litters each breeder can have in a year to only two although i think 1 is suffice

some valid points, i'm particularly against young bitches having pups, and do believe they should higher that, however those that hopefully produce quality and attempt to improve on the breed ie registered bitches, would be those that get limited, and those that in main are causing problem go unaffected.
also those determined to farm out pups, even with a registered bitch, just don't declare litters for registration, sure we have all seen she is kc registered but no papers! think this may in turn push price of registered pups up, which would only encourage back street breeders to cash in even more.

It's a huge problem and would take a combination of various types of sanctions to even attempt to rectify it.

absolutely.

all ''pets'' should be nicked.

for every person who thinks they will just breed one litter there are a squillion others with the same idea.

kc registered breeding stock & desexed pets should be free registration.

everything else should be at least a 1000 quid a year registration. maybe even 2000.

the kc could monitor the registered litters & weed out the pure breed puppy farmers & they could be charged retropectivly

win - win.

go for it.

see how the byb's & puppy farmers handle that.

those that hopefully produce quality and attempt to improve on the breed ie registered bitches, would be those that get limited, and those that in main are causing problem go unaffected.

I know where you're coming from Louise, but some top kennels breed alot,
But if they bred, as they say because they want to keep one back, and have say 6 bitches each producing, then in no time they'd be over run with dogs, so we know even KC health tested stock breeders are over producing litters even though they breed/show

The way some get around it, is by registering litters under other names/adresses also

I was shocked to see in Dante n Tias breed record supplements the amount of registered Staffy litters and that was just for the quarter! the numbers are rising every year

I thought to myself wow is there enough homes for them all?

I think the KC should take more responsibility with licensing breeders and limiting the amount of litters they can produce, as there are also KC'd dogs in rescues too being PTS its a shame

I know there are good breeders, like yourself, but there are also bad ones
As for all the others / cross breeders how on earth do you go about stopping them? It seems the more you tell them not to the more likely they will go ahead anyway regardless

Fighting is still around even though its banned and illegal
Its like when somethings banned they do it all the more

So no it would be a massive undertaking, i dont see it working sadly

No Caz sadly me neither, it saddens me to think that we live in a 'throw' away society, and true not even the registered ones escape this, and neither does price deter it either, years ago pups were priced out of this type of market almost ensuring it's home for life. sadly this is no longer case either.
I'm hating this part of having the pups and letting them go, having to quizz and look for devious notions before you have met the poor people, gosh had one enquirey and before he'd got here i'd got him down as a puppy farmer, pit bull breeder and probably a part time pimp for good measure... (even though nothing had lead me to believe this really or else i wouldn't have allowed him to veiw and he'd been recommended and was doing a 7 hour round trip just on a 'one might be available'...lol )
Turns out to be absolutely great soon to be owner of one of my boys, and we have so giggled when i told him what i'd been thinking.

smooth wrote:absolutely.

all ''pets'' should be nicked.

for every person who thinks they will just breed one litter there are a squillion others with the same idea.

kc registered breeding stock & desexed pets should be free registration.

everything else should be at least a 1000 quid a year registration. maybe even 2000.

the kc could monitor the registered litters & weed out the pure breed puppy farmers & they could be charged retropectivly

win - win.

go for it.

see how the byb's & puppy farmers handle that.

How would you go about making sure all pets are done though?
I dont see people complying really
Does that include KC pets you mean?

As mine are pets but i also show now and then, though im not a breeder , if i had them done i could'nt show no more

temkade wrote:No Caz sadly me neither, it saddens me to think that we live in a 'throw' away society, and true not even the registered ones escape this, and neither does price deter it either, years ago pups were priced out of this type of market almost ensuring it's home for life. sadly this is no longer case either.
I'm hating this part of having the pups and letting them go, having to quizz and look for devious notions before you have met the poor people, gosh had one enquirey and before he'd got here i'd got him down as a puppy farmer, pit bull breeder and probably a part time pimp for good measure... (even though nothing had lead me to believe this really or else i wouldn't have allowed him to veiw and he'd been recommended and was doing a 7 hour round trip just on a 'one might be available'...lol )
Turns out to be absolutely great soon to be owner of one of my boys, and we have so giggled when i told him what i'd been thinking.

i'd be exactly the same though lol

At least you ensure your babies go to good homes

I hope they keep in touch with you louise, keep you up-dated with their progress, then you could post the pics yaay!

i send Dante n Tias breeders pics, i think its nice to let them know how they are doing

Which boy did he have? is he going to show/pet?

Caz x

Hi yes it is nice to keep in touch all all my last litter sent me piccs , although after 5 years contact is not as often as when they first went.

well he's torn between torres and gerrard...lol and I have another lady in same dilemma, so he's been perfect gentleman and said he'd be more than delighted with either. they are both pet homes.

I'm still umming and arring about other 3, that close so it's final decision time this friday when friend comes over, but been that past two weeks....l but if we get it down to two thats a result as one is possibley going overseeas, so gives me a bit longer....lol

Ah its nice hes being so good about it, as i said theres not much to choose between them, he knows quality when he sees it

Who's getting the howler? lol are you deciding to keep him still?
or are you sending him to me

Good luck with the choosing i know it'll be a hard one

Where abroad is the one going louise?

Caz x

if you are concerned there aren't enough homes for the dogs bred by registered breeders there is no way known there would be enough homes for the puppies produced by byb's as well.

legislating all non registered breedng stock must be neutered would be a positive step.
also legislate massive fines for non compliance...like 10,0000 pounds & or six months in the nick for instance.

that would make a few people think twice.



we have two registers.

the main register for show/breeding stock & the limited register which is primarily for ankc registered pets.

dogs on the limited register do come with a copy of their registered pedigree but they can't be shown & their progeny can't be registered.

breeders decide which dog goes on which register. which means they have a say in the status quo of their own breed.

as with everything, people aren't known to be breaking the law until they are caught, & sooner or later they are caught.
same scenario would apply to unregistered breeders.