8 week old puppy growling at the children????????

As some of you might be aware we have had our new addition to the family an 8 week old female black & white pied staffy. She is a real live wire and from the moment she wakes up to the time she goes to sleep she doesn't stop biteing.

Have tried some of your techniques as mentioned in this area of the forum but so far to no avail.

I have a 13 year old son with whom cannot walk accross the room without her flying at his ankles and biteing him. I have corrected her each time she does this but she doesn't seem to take the blindest.
She constantly barks at the children which i presumed was to instigate play but when they do play with her rolling a ball etc all she wants to do is bite them.

Tonight she constantly kept biteing my son who walked away from her, she followed him and sunk her teeth into his leg, before i could correct her he picked her up to put her in the kitchen which is where her crate is and she growled at him which can only be described as a similar noise that i have heard a friend of mines snappy jack russell make, i immediatley told her off & put her in the kitchen behind the dog gate and no play continued.

I have kept alot of dogs in the past owning them from puppies but i have never come accross this before. Obviously all puppies play bite/growl but it would seem that me & the wife are fine to pick her up but if my son or daughter does she growls.

Should i be concerned about this at such a young age? Could it be out of play? or is she being aggressive towards the children??? Neither of them are rough with her as i wouldn't allow them to be so i really cannot understand why she is behaving in this way.

Have any of you come accross this before? Any advice on how to deal with this would be greatly appreciated as with two children to consider i do not want her to be aggressive towards them when she is older.

Kind regards

Richard......

Personally, i wouldn't step in if i were you. Let your children chastise the pup by putting her in the crate - the pup will learn that the children are also dominant. Only leave her in the crate for a couple of minutes maximum though.

Reckon you'd break the habit in a day or two

Remember - Let the pup do something wrong and tell her no, i normally put the dog in a submissive position at the same time as telling it "No" and hold it there for a max of 2 - 3 seconds. If she comes back for more, then it's out to the crate.

Jazz did a lot of mouthing during the first few days and she still does it now (say 1 in 10 times) but i think that's down to forgetfulness & excitement & not aggressiveness.

You must allow whoever is on the recieving end to chastise the pup so that it learns that it must respect that person.

Ignore the barking... it is attention seeking, once the dog realises that it gets nothing from barking at those in the house it will stop... it'd rather expend the energy elsewhere

When we took our pup (when he was that little) to training they gave advise on ways to stop barking, biting and growling while teaching us how to train our dogs and if the problems continuted they were always available after the session to be with the dog and show us one on one what to do. They were also dog behaviourists not just trainers so that helped!
Maybe you could see if there is something similar near you?

I also did a lot of what BristolBlue suggested, although I didnt put him into submission.

Hope this helps a bit

I agree with BristolBlue Staffords and K&M

Did the breeders have any children? Sometimes this biting is to initiate play as with their litter siblings.
The problem i had with my girl was biting my older dog this way. I had a stairgate across the kitchen door and when she kept biting him i'd put her the other side of it for timeout. She soon learnt that her behavior seperated her from us, she could still see us through the gate, she stopped after a while. All dogs are different. You have to be consistant with it. My boy would also sit on the stairs to escape her needle sharp teeth, which she couldnt climb. Always enforce good behavior with reward ie 'good girl/boy' and treats. mine will do anything for treats Also like has allready been said classes are a good option.

Thankyou all for the valueable advice, she was fine with my son this morning but my wife actually got him to get her to sit & give her a treat this morning. He then picked her up and no growling took place. The breeder she came from had four children in age from 5 to 13. They all handled the pups & she did say that the pups would start barking in a morning as soon as the children were up & about as they knew the children would have them out & play with them. I am presuming that this is the case with our children hence the barking as soon as she sees the children and the running round them. We all went & viewed the pups and both my children held all the pups and also mixed with the mom & dad of the pups for a good two-three hours and no aggression was shown to either of my children at all. This is the first time she has done this so i can only presume that she is finding her feet. We had the pick of the litter and she was the most liverley pup of them all along with the one male pup she was also the biggest pup of them all so based on this i would certainly say she is rather bossey and perhaps this is what she is trying to do with the children, as she doesn't do it with either myself or my wife. Infact she will actually paw the wife to pick her up and licks her & nuzzles into her neck & goes to sleep. She is off to the vets on friday so i can always discuss it with them in the meantime i am going to source a good training school to take her to. once again many thanks to you all.

kind regards richard...

BristolBlue_Stafford wrote:Personally, i wouldn't step in if i were you. Let your children chastise the pup by putting her in the crate - the pup will learn that the children are also dominant. Only leave her in the crate for a couple of minutes maximum though.

No this is not the way to do it, this is a baby and like all babies need to be taught what is wanted of them and given boundaries. Children do not have the experience to teach a dog boundaries and a crate should be a good place to go and not a punishment. One of mine Joe, the children in his previous home was allowed to chastise him and 11 years later he is still terrified of children he doesn't know.

Remember - Let the pup do something wrong and tell her no, i normally put the dog in a submissive position at the same time as telling it "No" and hold it there for a max of 2 - 3 seconds. If she comes back for more, then it's out to the crate.

How is an 8 week old puppy supposed to understand why you are doing this to him? You are using aggression to solve a problem, as the pup grows he could use aggression back because you have taught him it.

You must allow whoever is on the recieving end to chastise the pup so that it learns that it must respect that person.

Have you ever been told off for something that you didn't know anything about? What was your reaction? Were you resentful, did you want to get your own back etc? It is better to teach your pup what you want than to punish when they don't understand what is happening.

Ignore the barking... it is attention seeking, once the dog realises that it gets nothing from barking at those in the house it will stop... it'd rather expend the energy elsewhere

Barking is communication, depending on what the dog is trying to say it can be very dangerous to ignore it. In this case I suspect that the pup is barking with excitement.

For the biting I would put him in another room or walk out and close the door on the room he is in. Don't even look at him when you do this and try and get your children to do it as well. He will learn that when he bites, the play

stops. Same with the barking, play stops.


When we took our pup (when he was that little) to training they gave advise on ways to stop barking, biting and growling while teaching us how to train our dogs and if the problems continuted they were always available after the session to be with the dog and show us one on one what to do.

What sort of things were you told to do? There are many ways to stop an unwanted behaviour and I love to learn how others do it.

in the meantime i am going to source a good training school to take her to

Go along without your pup first to see how the work the dogs, any gadgets like choke chains walk away and find another. For puppy classes, if they are just allowed to run free with no intervention or teaching, walk away, that teachs some pups to become bullies and other to because frightened of other dogs. Puppy classes need to be structured so that the pups learn and develop into well mannered dogs.

Mattie wrote:

BristolBlue_Stafford wrote:Personally, i wouldn't step in if i were you. Let your children chastise the pup by putting her in the crate - the pup will learn that the children are also dominant. Only leave her in the crate for a couple of minutes maximum though.

No this is not the way to do it, this is a baby and like all babies need to be taught what is wanted of them and given boundaries. Children do not have the experience to teach a dog boundaries and a crate should be a good place to go and not a punishment. One of mine Joe, the children in his previous home was allowed to chastise him and 11 years later he is still terrified of children he doesn't know.

Sorry, disagree - obviously you need to supervise what the children are doing but so long as the kids go along with what you've asked them to do in the situation you will have no problem. You say that the children have no experience... How do you gain experience without doing something? The crate is a good place to go, it just depends on the circumstances... Kids get sent to their rooms, doesn't make them scared of it though.

Mattie wrote:

BristolBlue_Stafford wrote:Remember - Let the pup do something wrong and tell her no, i normally put the dog in a submissive position at the same time as telling it "No" and hold it there for a max of 2 - 3 seconds. If she comes back for more, then it's out to the crate.

How is an 8 week old puppy supposed to understand why you are doing this to him? You are using aggression to solve a problem, as the pup grows he could use aggression back because you have taught him it.

Not true, timing is the key... the dog does something bad and you immediately tell it no. I admit putting it in the submissive position is not ideal and can be perceived as harsh but generally you only need do this once or twice and the dog learns that no means that it has to obey your command as you are it's leader.

If it were in a pack and it bit a more dominant dog then it would would be placed into the submissive position by the more dominant dog... Doing this is playing to the dogs natural instincts and it learns quicker

Mattie wrote:

BristolBlue_Stafford wrote:You must allow whoever is on the recieving end to chastise the pup so that it learns that it must respect that person.

Have you ever been told off for something that you didn't know anything about? What was your reaction? Were you resentful, did you want to get your own back etc? It is better to teach your pup what you want than to punish when they don't understand what is happening.

Again, the pup understands when it has done wrong and what it has done to provoke the reaction it gets... Timing matters, if you are too late with the punishment then you shouldn't use it at that time

Mattie wrote:

BristolBlue_Stafford wrote:Ignore the barking... it is attention seeking, once the dog realises that it gets nothing from barking at those in the house it will stop... it'd rather expend the energy elsewhere

Barking is communication, depending on what the dog is trying to say it can be very dangerous to ignore it. In this case I suspect that the pup is barking with excitement.

For the biting I would put him in another room or walk out and close the door on the room he is in. Don't even look at him when you do this and try and get your children to do it as well. He will learn that when he bites, the play stops. Same with the barking, play stops.

Agree, Barking is communication... I too suspected that it was excitement and that it was using it to gain attention and therefore continue with what it was doing in the first place. If that were growling at / or biting the children then by ignoring it the dog would lose interest... and therefore stop barking.

Perhaps i didn't emphasise enough with the barking statement... you are right, you should always use your common sense to determine if the dog is actually trying to tell you something rather than just try to gain attention for "play" sake.

Mattie, she told us basically what has been mentioned above.. to do a loud 'no' or 'UH', and move away from the pup, not looking at it for a few seconds/minute then coming back and trying again, repeating the action if biting growling or whatever continues. Lots of praise and reinforcement when play was nice!


This is what we did and it worked fine.

She also suggested to some people crating or removing from the room for a few seconds/minutes if the problem was more severe and she coached individuals as I mentioned but unfortunantly I dont know what she said as I was not one of those people!

We were told not to force a dog into a submissive position, especially dogs that will be large or strong when grown.

Edited to add: I suggested training because I found it easer to learn in that environment, its easier for me to do practical stuff while learning rather than read a text or something, not because I learnt something special or extraordinary! Plus it is socialising your puppy!

BristolBlue_Stafford wrote:

Mattie wrote:
No this is not the way to do it, this is a baby and like all babies need to be taught what is wanted of them and given boundaries. Children do not have the experience to teach a dog boundaries and a crate should be a good place to go and not a punishment. One of mine Joe, the children in his previous home was allowed to chastise him and 11 years later he is still terrified of children he doesn't know.

Sorry, disagree - obviously you need to supervise what the children are doing but so long as the kids go along with what you've asked them to do in the situation you will have no problem. You say that the children have no experience... How do you gain experience without doing something? The crate is a good place to go, it just depends on the circumstances... Kids get sent to their rooms, doesn't make them scared of it though.

If the pup is biting the children it will continue to bite while they are putting him in the crate. Timing has to be developed, very few people have the timing right from the start, this is why clicker training works so well, timing isn't quite so critical, you can be a little late with that and still get the behaviour you want.

Yes, you do get experience by doing, but a biting pup is not the time to start letting children get experience, I know children that became frightened of dogs because their puppy used to bite when they first got it.

Mattie wrote:

BristolBlue_Stafford wrote:Remember - Let the pup do something wrong and tell her no, i normally put the dog in a submissive position at the same time as telling it "No" and hold it there for a max of 2 - 3 seconds. If she comes back for more, then it's out to the crate.

How is an 8 week old puppy supposed to understand why you are doing this to him? You are using aggression to solve a problem, as the pup grows he could use aggression back because you have taught him it.

Not true, timing is the key... the dog does something bad and you immediately tell it no. I admit putting it in the submissive position is not ideal and can be perceived as harsh but generally you only need do this once or twice and the dog learns that no means that it has to obey your command as you are it's leader.

Timing has to be developed, very few have it naturally, children are usually quicker at developing it than adults but they still have to learn it. Get the timing wrong and the pup gets mixed messages which confuses him, that leads to many owners thinking they have a disobedient or dominant dog. Dogs can learn to obey you without using force.

If it were in a pack and it bit a more dominant dog then it would would be placed into the submissive position by the more dominant dog... Doing this is playing to the dogs natural instincts and it learns quicker

Puppies have puppy license to about 6 months old, they are allowed to get away with quite a bit by other dogs that are in their pack, nor do they need to use dominance with a puppy. If you watch dogs you will see that instead of a dog rolling another over, the dog rolls over itself. For years I thought a dog was being rolled, mainly because I never saw it completely but the day I did, I realised that what I was seeing was very different to what I thought I was seeing. It does happen every quickly, but since I first realised what was happening, I have been watching a lot more carefully and every time it is a dog rolling over and not being made to roll over. It means that when a dog rolls over, they have already submitted, they have not been put in a submissive position.

Whenever possible I let my older dogs sort my younger ones out, but there are times when I have to step in and stop it.

Mattie wrote:

BristolBlue_Stafford wrote:You must allow whoever is on the recieving end to chastise the pup so that it learns that it must respect that person.

Have you ever been told off for something that you didn't know anything about? What was your reaction? Were you resentful, did you want to get your own back etc? It is better to teach your pup what you want than to punish when they don't understand what is happening.

Again, the pup understands when it has done wrong and what it has done to provoke the reaction it gets... Timing matters, if you are too late with the punishment then you shouldn't use it at that time

How do you know the pup knows it has done wrong?

Mattie

Think we'll have to agree to disagree, i have had staffords all of my life and have never had an aggressive one yet... luck maybe !! or just training?... I am 39 remember so i've been around staffords for a very long time

To be honest, there are so many training methods out there that you could get swallowed up by the whole thing.

I just advised the poster of the method i use, it works for me - Whereas, your methods work for you.

All of my Staffords were trained in the same way... which just happens to be the way that my parents used on their staffords too. We never once had a timid, aggressive or unpredictable dog.

Lets leave it there and let the poster decide which method(s) to use... after all, it is there choice.

Thanks for the debate though... that's what make forums great.

Fair enough, I love debates and it doesn't matter if I agree or not, I can still learn more about dogs. I have used all the methods I speak out against now so do know what I am doing.

There is another point to debates, many owners, especially new ones that have their first dog, reading a good debate helps them to train their dogs. It gives them ideas on what to try to solve a problem or when they want to train their dogs to do something like recall. These people often get answers to questions that they don't like asking for various reasons.

BristolBlue_Stafford, I am not talking about you when I say this but many owners expect their dogs to know what they want without teaching them, take sit, they don't realise that when you teach a dog to sit in the kitchen, you have to teach it again in the hall, and again in the living room, etc. and it is debates that they learn about dog body language and how to read it.

Like you I have lots of experience with dogs, not just Staffies but many breeds of dogs, also aggressive dogs and turned them round. It is a long time since I saw my 39th birthday